Bottle gas cooker

[dragon]

I am wanting to replace an ageing cooker that runs from bottled butane with a new one. Are there any special regulations for fitting such cookers or can it be done DIY. What type of connection is used, the current one has a simple screw on connection fitted to the rubber hose.

[BIG MAC]

Hi Yes there are regs and if you buy new and don't get the install done by an insured artisan you will start to get snotty reminders through the mail .........

[Will]

But if you get one of this type of thing, which includes a compartment for the bottle, the only installation required is to connect to the gas cylinder (must be butane).

http://www.darty.com/nav/achat/gros_electromenager/cuisinieres/gaziniere/faure_bgl803_w.html

[pachapapa]

Butane and propane are supplied up to 13 kg weight for DIY installation; the butane is normally stored adjacent to the cooker if propane is used it must be placed outside which is more complicated for DIY installation. The 13 kg is the largest butane bottle available but the propane is supplied in 35 kg bottles or larger; at 35 kg or larger professional certificated installation is rtequired.

The link below, similar for other suppliers, allows you to "play with bottles and appliances.

http://www.butagaz.fr/Particuliers/EspaceSecurite/espace-connectique.aspx

[Anton Redman II]

Butane typically are small cylinders stored in the interior - either as part of a stove or beneath a hob. Propane are typically but not always bigger cylinders on the outside of the building.

All the hoses have a use by date - typically five years for the butane in rubber up to 25years for propane in metal reinforced plastic

[Jonzjob]

Anton, when we had our hob inspected by the guy who installed our condensing boiler we were told that the reinforced pipe was a 'for life' jobbie. He is a local, pro, qualified installer plumber so not a cowboy in any way.

Perhaps he meant that when the pipe came to the end of its life at 25 years it split and blew the house up taking us with it. That may be classified as a lifetime?[Www][;-)]

We have a 1000 ltr tank at the back of our house. Propane obviously..

[dragon]

Thanks for all the help. Looking at the websites it looks like if i buy the cooker and a connecting hose i should be able to connect it to a 13kg butane cylinder myself.

[BIG MAC]

[quote user="dragon"]Thanks for all the help. Looking at the websites it looks like if i buy the cooker and a connecting hose i should be able to connect it to a 13kg butane cylinder myself.[/quote]

And then get snotty postcards reminding you tat the work should be done by a registered person if not your house insurance may be affected etc. if it helps, I speak from experience with our Curtess stove which has a separate gas compartment (cheap and very good for the money with 5 burners)

[nomoss]

You should also make sure there are both high and low vents to the outside of the building in the kitchen, and also where the bottle is located if this is in another room. The bottle must also be in a ventilated non inflammable enclosure.

Plusieurs points sont à respecter dans une cuisine : des aérations basses et hautes, un endroit où placer votre bouteille Butagaz muni d’aérations et en matière non combustible.

La bouteille de butane munie d’un détendeur doit être reliée à l’appareil d’utilisation par :
- soit un tube souple avec la mention de l’année limite d’utilisation. Ce tube doit être visitable sur toute sa longueur et changé avant sa date de péremption.
- soit un tuyau souple inox onduleux dont la durée de vie n’est pas limitée.

Enfin, prenez soin de bien fermer l'alimentation en gaz de votre gazinière après usage. Certains modèles étant munis du système thermocouple, coupant le gaz en même temps que la flamme.

Normes for vents are here: http://conseils.xpair.com/consulter_savoir_faire/confort_thermique_gaz_propane/normes_aerations_installation_gaz_propane/877.htm

For cooker only, here:

http://www.acqualys.fr/pages/index.php?id=436

[pachapapa]

[quote user="dragon"]Thanks for all the help. Looking at the websites it looks like if i buy the cooker and a connecting hose i should be able to connect it to a 13kg butane cylinder myself.[/quote]

Indeed it will be similar to your present installation but with a new cooker to replace your used cooker in poor condition. It would appear that BigMac seemed a soft touch for the supplier of his cooker. As for nomoss most of his kitchen diagrams in french are directed towards a propane installation, it should also be appreciated that when more than ONE appliance is connected to gas source a different set of regulations are applicable, in addition when a "chaudière" ( gas water heater ) is involved the conditions prescribed for ventilation are very strict. The single cooker plus butane gas cylinder is used by millions in france and I am sure a neighbour would be only too glad to explain what is required. I would like to make a suggestion that the selection of a hob with three gas burners and one electric hot plate has definite advantages. I have such an installation and probably use the hot plate more frequently than the gas burners; in addition the wattage/power output is such that a normal 3 pin supply can be used.

Before you purchase make sure the supplier has technical installation sheets available.

[pachapapa]

Personally I use Totalgaz cylinders maily because the village shop stocks that supplier and have 3 of the 6 kg Malice cylinders so I always have one in reserve. But I rather like the new 10 kg Sesha cylinder fitted with wheels. Totalgaz are the first retailer in france to offer this innovation. The link below is to the Totalgaz website in english for new arrivals to france, it explains the function of the détendeur an essential element for the safe use of gas in the home.

http://www.totalgaz.fr/moving-to-france/

[BIG MAC]

Soft touch........why? The store weren't the ones chasing if I recall it was some gas register mob.

[Jonzjob]

When we changed our hob we threw out the 3 gas 1 elect set up because it was a waste of time. Like all electric element hobs it takes forever to heat and the same to cool. Halogen or induction may be different, but the 'normal' elect ring, no thank you.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]When we changed our hob we threw out the 3 gas 1 elect set up because it was a waste of time. Like all electric element hobs it takes forever to heat and the same to cool. Halogen or induction may be different, but the 'normal' elect ring, no thank you.[/quote]

Mine takes 3 minutes to boil water but in 2chevres one is never in a great hurry.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="BIG MAC"]

Soft touch........why? The store weren't the ones chasing if I recall it was some gas register mob.

[/quote]

Sounds like the same lot that do tarmac drives.[:)]

[pachapapa]

[quote user="pachapapa"]

Personally I use Totalgaz cylinders maily because the village shop stocks that supplier and have 3 of the 6 kg Malice cylinders so I always have one in reserve. But I rather like the new 10 kg Shesha cylinder fitted with wheels. Totalgaz are the first retailer in france to offer this innovation. The link below is to the Totalgaz website in english for new arrivals to france, it explains the function of the détendeur an essential element for the safe use of gas in the home.

http://www.totalgaz.fr/moving-to-france/

[/quote]

Checked the english totalsite quickly and realise that it is out of date and in fact there is no sign of the new gas cylinder with wheels. I am afraid that is the problem with english convenience translations...even worse for french legal translations[:)]...but here you are the beautiful design object on the french total website.

http://www.totalgaz.fr/particuliers/shesha-butane.php

And the good news is that it uses the very same "détendeur" as my Total Malice cylinders....Oh dear! I can feel an inspired moment approaching.

It is so beautiful even has a "puce"  RFID. http://www.enerzine.com/12/7141+shesha-une-nouvelle-bouteille-de-gaz-par-totalgaz+.html

[Le Plombier]

There is a lot of misinformation posted on this thread

I am gas registered in France and know what I am talking about

The regulations are very complex and difficult to explain without specific detail of the proposed installation

The only thing you can install is a single bottle local to the cooker with a flexble hose

Anthing else must have a gas certificate

Ventilation must comply with the regs

Gas type and bottle size must comply with the regs, etc ,etc

Get professional advice and be safe

Le Plombier

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Le Plombier"]There is a lot of misinformation posted on this thread I am gas registered in France and know what I am talking about The regulations are very complex and difficult to explain without specific detail of the proposed installation The only thing you can install is a single bottle local to the cooker with a flexble hose Anthing else must have a gas certificate Ventilation must comply with the regs Gas type and bottle size must comply with the regs, etc ,etc Get professional advice and be safe Le Plombier[/quote]

.....The only thing you can install is a single bottle local to the cooker with a flexble hose....

And that is all the OP wishes to do.

I would note that in a previous post I have drawn the OPs attention to the fact that if TWO appliances are connected to the same bottle then a different set of regiulations apply.

It might be of interest for you to know that an estimated 3 million french households adopt a cuisinière + bidon de butane combination including myself.

A concise fiche d'installation can be picked up everything printed on one page enabling the user to comply with the rather simple regulatory requirements for the basic installation. 

[dragon]

This is exactly what i want to install so i feel confident now to proceed. Thanks Le Plombier.

[BIG MAC]

'What I want to install'

You should know that there is a competency requirement and this is why you will get a card asking you to confirm the installation was carried out correctly (and by whom).

If you install yourself and it goes bang, your house catches fire or someone is harmed, you may be held criminally liable. In some circumstances a visitor to your house receiving a scald from an overturned pot could set off a chain of events which would result in an improper (hence uninsured) installation being uncovered.

I wont tell you I know what I am talking about....there's plenty who would, should the (unlikely) set of circumstances occur, they will be recogniseable by the blue van parked outside...and it isn't British Gas's outreach service either.

The 1,000s of people in France who have bottled gas cookers is no defence when you are British and facing the music and if they are in shtook you may find with many of them.....presto! ...there's a certificate from their mate for the required time.

A local artisan would likely charge less than 50€ to commission assuming your ventilation and location of the combustion appliance are suitable.

I would imagine also that the guarantee for your appliance would be invalid unless competently installed.

You do have one potential defence should you proceed and the unthinkable happened...... A French registered Gas installer told you it was ok. on here (I would print the relevant advice off and pop in in the kitchen drawer) maybe that's what you meant by being equipped to proceed. (A Registration number would maybe be helpful too)

Happy cooking!

[Chancer]

What drugs are you on Big-Mac?  - They seem very effective, I wouldn't mind some myself.

Do you not think the cards from the certification agencies are just an attempt to fleece the ignorant?

Do you have a gas barbecue? 

[pachapapa]

FLIP Parthenay 2010.

Winner gets to connect Daddy's gas barbecue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEj8BOxssg&feature=channel

[BIG MAC]

Prozac - peach palfium - amyl nitrate - codeine - warfarin - Alka Selter and  curanail......

We haff vays of repudiating claims....try loss adjuster.....

If you would like to pass on your details particularly if you use  your gas barbecue in your lounge. Actually if a person was injured or your house destroyed whilst using a gas barbie in your lounge .......what do you think your Insurers will say? (Apart from asking you what drugs you were on)

I could go on to the responsibility to mitigate loss etc. .......maybe some other time

 

[Chancer]

Why do you want me to pass on my details? I prefer confidentiality.

No problem re person injured or house destroyed by my systeme D cooking arrangements .

I have no household insurance ergo I have no problem.

I have just finished the first tranche of plumbing without burning the place down, will be 6 months to a year before getting out the blowlamp again so I am feeling cocky [:)]

[BIG MAC]

"so I am feeling cocky "

Something to do when not blowlamping I guess!!!