Properly costs

[Jack reacher]

Hi we have just signed up to the forum. We have holidayed in France often in our caravan or motorhomes and are toying with the idea of a holiday home rather than towing anymore. What we wondered was is there anyway of working out the cost of ownership, ie poll tax , water rates etc. We would only want a 2 bedroom max , with a small garden to sit out in. Definitely not a rambling mansion, am to old and lazy for all that now. Just for long break or holiday. Thanks

[andyh4]

There are two local taxes, taxe d'habitation (residence tax) and taxe foncieres (owners tax) and like UK property taxes these are highly dependent on location as well as the property size/value. The only way to find out is to ask what the taxes are when viewing properties.

Water is metered and you will pay twice if you are on mains drainage - once for usage and once for the disposal of waste water. If the house has no mains drainage, you will need to factor in the emptying of the fosse septique every three years or so.

For a holiday home, I am sure you are right to only want a small garden. Nothing worse than arriving in May for a week to find the whole week is taken up

hacking back the jungle and mowing the elephant grass - only to repeat the exercise in the summer.

[Jack reacher]

Hi, thanks. We did not want to waste estate agents time if sums did not add up. Yes hacking a garden back would not be nice, also small house cheaper to run and no room for visitors. Haha. Will email a couple to see what sort of poll tax prices are.thanks again

[idun]

No idea if a french immobilier would even know what such bills would be......... and even if they have an idea you must remember that they may not be able to tell you with any precision at all about the taxe d'habitation  as it is based on family circumstances for french residents, based on their tax declaration........ and you will not be a resident or doing a french tax return.

The fonciere is the owners taxe and if they can, they may at least be able to tell you what that is.

Frankly I would worry more about heating costs than anything else. And that may well have many determining factors.

[EuroTrash]

Utilities normally have standing charges (as I recall, that was not the norm in the UK) so even when you're not there, budget on having to pay to stay connected.

At the risk of stating the obvious - another option is gites. All home comforts, none of the hassle, and you can pick a different place for each holiday if you want. It could be that annual cost of maintaining a holiday home (taxes, utilities, insurance, maintenance and repairs) would easily cover several gite stays.

Property in France is not an investment as it is in the UK - it doesn't appreciate and it can be very hard to sell.

The idea of owning a little bit of France needs to really appeal to make it worthwhile. IMHO.

PS I don't run a gite so I'm not drumming up custom!

[Jack reacher]

Is the heating costs that bad then ? I have seen a lot of electric heating in some properties. We are fortunate at home here to have gas and relatively low running costs. Is going to be like able to afford to buy a Range Rover , just can not afford to use it. Haha

[Jack reacher]

We have tried gites in the past and the other half spends the 1st day cleaning and re washing up cutlery etc as its never as clean as she would want, hence we use our own caravan. The idea of a small property was appealing in so much there would be no towing and could travel light and faster. A mobile home was dismissed due to the site fees and lack of security of tenancy. Like I said no mansion needed just something peaceful.

[Chancer]

Perhaps you should reconsider your username, the real Jack Reacher would never saty in one place more than a few days, he would not even entertain a first home let alone a holiday home [:D]

 

Nomoss can keep his username though because its very cool and I suspect he has not yet stopped rolling!

[Jack reacher]

Your right there. Have enjoyed all his books, usually a Xmas present that's read on holiday. I guess being in a caravan is part there moving to different places.

[Patf]

One of our family has offered to buy this house, to make it into a  holiday house for the extended family. We like the idea, we would be able to stay here as long as we need to, and they all like the area and the fact that it's near the Pyrenees. Lots to do if you like the outdoor life.

But we put him off at first, mainly because of maintenance issues, and the fact that it will always be difficult to sell.

As well as the points above, there's an increase in the number of burglaries in holiday homes. But we might well come back to the idea, it's not an expensive house, only basics, no pool.

True about the grass cutting, but we know gardeners who would cut regularly, not too expensive.

[YCCMB]

Local taxes can be low...or high, and there's basically no rhyme or reason to them. One reason an estate agent won't be able to tell you much is that, as Idun points out, what you might pay and what the person selling their property to you will be paying can be radically different, as it's based on residency status and family circumstances for full time French residents, and holiday home owners don't get discounts. In fact, it's not unknown for them to pay more.

Heating costs can be cheap enough...if you're hardly ever there in winter...

Remember as well that most of these Extra costs will increase with time. Our council tax in SE UK is not much different from our local taxes in France, for two properties of relatively similar size on similar sized plots. The difference between the two was significant when we first bought in France, but it's increased a lot since.

[pip24]

Hi we have a holiday cottage in a small dordogne vilage. The cottage is a middle one of 4. It has 2 bedrooms and a toilet and a sink upstairs. A living room and kitchen, toilet and shower downstairs small garden with large shed. I have given the description because as other posters have stated all houses are different and charges vary from area to area.

Our water heating is gas. Our room heating is electric fan heaters and electric radiators.

The costs for 2015 were as follows in euros.

Habitation 461. Fonciere 520

bottled gas 3 x 38 = 114.

Water 251 . Electric 195. Insurance 300.

Phone line rental 204 .

Bank A/c 52. Bank card 31.

This is for 2 of us for 16 to 20 weeks a year between early April and late November.

I hope this is the info you were looking for

Added together the amount is 2128 euro which seems a lot but soon we are renting a gite in northern france for 7 days an then 2 nights in a hotel in mid france the 9 days wil cost about 800 euro on accomadation alone . This puts the costs of the cottage well in perspective.

[Jack reacher]

Hi, that is really useful thank you. It gives us a comparison against caravan insurance and large car running costs and campsite fees. Our caravan insurance is about £420 a year plus annual service to keep the 10 year warranty plus site fees , your cottage is not as bad as some might think. Thanks again.

[mint]

But no costs for maintenance and general wear-and-tear have been given.

There is always something or other to do to a house.  Even if something simple like a gate needing painting, a small plumbing malfunction, a bit of guttering gets blown down, and the repairs bills always seem to be larger than you'd expect to pay in the UK!  At least that has been my impression[:-))]

Mind you, I admit that my UK pricing is probably no longer accurate and, of course, our income here isn't as large as before[;-)]

I'm with EuroTrash on this one, think long and hard before commiting to buying.  And there IS always that worry that, should you want to sell at a later date because of increasing age or because you are fed-up of staying in the one location year after year, you might find it not easy to off-load.

There are people on this very forum who took years to sell French properties they no longer need or want, and there are people at this very moment trying to sell with zilch success.

Don't like to sound like a wet blanket but, whatever you do, look at all the options first.   

[Jack reacher]

Morning, thank you for taking the time to answer us. With out writing it all out properly the costs are pretty even, the French properly could be slightly more exspensive. The advantage a caravan has is if we do not use it we are not paying where as the house is constant. Plus side for house it can be used more out of peak times where as a lot of caravan sites close, motorhomes can use Aires caravan can not. We generally avoid France in July and August preferring the quiet time. More homework to be done. Thanks again.

[Judith]

I'm with Mint and others on this - having no success in selling our first permanent home here, after more years than I care to think about.

Whilst small homes will attract more French buyers as well as English, think more about whether it will sell well BEFORE you buy.

Also costs do go up, and there is always something going wrong which needs repairing and, unless you DIY, costs for workmen rise constantly, that is, if you can find the part you need in the first place.

Not trying to discourage you, but be realistic, as my first experience of living here in France was in a family holiday home, which over the years (21 I think) has needed pretty constant work.  This is not the home we are trying to sell, BTW, as it stays in the family, but not my side as I have no-one to leave it to.

[idun]

Surely a grass cutter would cost over 25€ an hour, or more? To be doing it legally. For me, in all honesty, that is a lot.

And personally, I wouldn't employ some one who wasn't as accidents in the garden are not infreqent and the consequences for someone employing someone au noir (govvy job etc) who had an accident are dire.

[mint]

Er.....id, you seem to have gone off on a tangent!

Are you replying to the right thread/topic?[:-))]

[Patf]

It was me who brought up grass cutting as part of maintenance.

It depends on the size of the grassed area, but eg to work for an hour fortnightly for 6 or 7 months of the year - 15 times 20€ (the price here for a reg. gardener) is 300€ or £230 pa. Which over a year is about £5 per week. Just to keep on top of it.

I'm trying to persuade husband to do this now but he won't agree (not yet!)

[Cendrillon]

Well on the plus side there are many good things to be said for owning a residence secondaire. For example making new and very good friends in your village especially if you can manage to speak French and are prepared to join in and make an effort.

You know what to expect and where things are in your own property and you'll quickly slip into your second life. During the Winter months you and OH can chat about your French life and make plans for the next visit.

Of course property maintenance costs add up. Choose a small house with courtyard outdoor space,somewhere not too remote with easy access to towns for markets, shopping etc. Consider distance from airports/ ferry ports and question whether cheap flight routes will exist outside the Summer months.

P.S. not all gites are badly run. It can be a great way to test different locations.

[Jack reacher]

Hi, we was chatting this morning about traveling time and distance. Most of our travels have been west coast , dordogne, and sw med. Brittany although nice I think will be to cold in the winter. If it's sw it would involve a stop over as we would be driving. Think the gites boat has sailed, we are happier with our own stuff. Thanks for all the advice.

[idun]

Just spluttered my tea with that comment.

Brittany is not necessarily colder in winter than SW. France I realise it depends where in the SW but believe me (or not) that there are parts of SW France that are not in the mountains that are ruddy freezing in winter......... even colder than where I lived in the Alpes and I expected them to be cold! And colder than say England.

Yes and travel costs have to be budgeted too.

[mint]

[quote user="Patf"]It was me who brought up grass cutting as part of maintenance.

It depends on the size of the grassed area, but eg to work for an hour fortnightly for 6 or 7 months of the year - 15 times 20€ (the price here for a reg. gardener) is 300€ or £230 pa. Which over a year is about £5 per week. Just to keep on top of it.

I'm trying to persuade husband to do this now but he won't agree (not yet!)

[/quote]

Oh, Pat, join the club, but there it is, one has one's manly pride, n'est-ce pas?[:D]

It's one of those things, like driving, and one is too proud to throw in the towel!

I have had this for about 3 years.  It's not as though we have a large garden, only about 1200 and all in 3 or 4 patches.  First, it's we'll better have a ride-on mower then it's but will a ride-on tackle the bit where the gradient is 1:10?

We already have one of those mowers that are self-propelling but no, it's too big and powerful and too heavy.  So, why don't we get a smaller one like the neighbour has?  Well, the smaller one won't tackle the grass at the bottom where it is really thick!  OK, then, let's have a lighter mower AS WELL AS our present, too-heavy one?  And so it goes....

However, this afternoon, we have arrived at a compromise:  we go and look at the neighbour's tondeuse and I am sure she'd let him try it and then there will be no more dithering about grass cutting.

There is of course the hedge to "discuss" but I have rather taken the matter into my own hands and have arranged for someone to cut all the hedges.  Of course, that is not the end of the matter so I have had to dissimulate a bit and say that it's just for the initial cut and that perhaps "we" (though not me, you understand) could manage to keep it under control after this initial cut....

Pat, I am not sure exactly what on earth all this coxing and boxing is about.  If I can't do something myself, I pay for someone to do it and then I can move on to the next thing!

[Patf]

Mint - that made me laugh [:D]

So the idea is to just keep on gently suggesting alternatives, and slowly but surely they might come around?

Today he spent hours working on our old siton, which had gone on strike, and succeeded in getting it working well again - so the pressure is off temporarily. New battery, new blades, new engine part ordered. Runs like a dream! He'll be starting on me next [;-)] I could do with a new battery.

But seriously, at this time of the year, if you don't keep on top of it, it soon becomes a hayfield.

Idun - you're right about cold winters in the SW, we've had some long heavy frosts, -15. But recently it has been warmer.

[mint]

It's not been cold as such where we are but, mon dieu, the rain, it raineth everyday with a hey, ho, the wind and the rain, the rain it raineth everyday,  to quote Shakespeare out of context!

It has only very recently stopped raining.  We had seas of mud everywhere, to the point where I asked my walking companions what the French expression was for mud besides boue and gadou?  When they said no, there was no other word, I pointed out that Eskimos had 20 different words for "snow" and that, surely, for the amount of mud we trod through on every single walk, there MUST be some special word?

In the end, I said well, could we say TAS de gadou?  So people laughed and said, yes, that was as good an expression as any.

In Brittany, the area around the golf de Morbihan is balmy, a bit like Cornwall, and I like it a lot.  However, for me, it felt very like Wales and a bit "on the fringe" and I determined to live in the "mainstream" part of France!!  Yes, I know people think I live in Dordogneshire but, even here, in God's own country, there are parts of the Dordogne where you do NOT trip over Brits in day to day life.  Maybe in the summer, they might be in chez Leclerc, but then I don't generally shop in Leclerc!