Cutting kitchen worktops

[PaulT]

Never tried using the jig that is available to cut the joints for when the worktop goes into a corner (a 90 degree angle).

Is it fairly easy to do or would I be better using jointing strips?

Paul

[Artois]

Hi Paul

My OH has done it once on a previous kitchen worktop. He recommends having a good practise first as it is quite tricky. However worth the effort rather than those unhygienic jointing strips.

Just wondered where you obtained your jig? We searched high and low in France and finally managed to borrow one from a friend in the UK. We are to do our new kitchen work top shortly but now wonder if we have the right guide as it is a straight edged worktop not a roll top type.

courage!

[Gluestick]

You don't need a jig.

If the worktop has a formed edge, then you simply cut a 45 degree angle across the formed edge on one piece and cut back into the receiving piece the depth of the mitre, from the mitre and butt joint the rest.

Then rout out the receivers and simply wind in the joiners on the under side.

I have seen a 45 degree mitre into the whole depth of joining worktop: bad. a far weaker joint and far harder to achieve a neat tight joint and also wastes material.

If no formed edge then it's a simple butt joint.

One valuable tip given me years ago by a master carpenter, cut slightly back from the true vertical (from the top) to ensure you have a perfect fit on the top (visible) edge.

Tricky to explain: if you care to send me an email, I'll send you a file attachment (Word Format),  with a diagram, which makes it far easier to understand.

 

[Gastines]

As an add-on to Gluesticks advice.Make sure you are using the correct "upside down" worktop blade,Teeth are opposite to normal cut, otherwise you will get a nice splintered edge!!

Regards.

[Trying]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

You don't need a jig.

 

If no formed edge then it's a simple butt joint.

One valuable tip given me years ago by a master carpenter, cut slightly back from the true vertical (from the top) to ensure you have a perfect fit on the top (visible) edge.

Tricky to explain: if you care to send me an email, I'll send you a file attachment (Word Format),  with a diagram, which makes it far easier to understand.

 

[/quote]

The term is under-cut,If you place a square on the work surface pointing down, the top plastic surface is thouching the square but the underside is not.So the top hits first leaving a gap on the under-side. e.g. under-cut

[marc62]

Hi All

 

A question that I am fully qualified to respond too! does not happen very often.

As the general manager for one of the largest kitchen manufactures & fully responsible for installations (installed 32,000 kitchens in 2007) I would not recomend the method which has been suggested.

I reccomend that a masons mitre is used to make a good level joint, a jig is to be used (trend is the preffered choice but they can be hired) any decent kitchen fitter will have one. A router is to be used to cut the tops, a blade with a double cutting edged is better choice. The cut edges are to be sealed, silicone is to be used to seal the edges, do not use PVA glue, varnish or paint as the board will act like a sponge & it will create a ridge in time. Three bolts are also to be used to pull them together even. If you follow the guidelines you will achieve a perfect joint which you should not be able to feel. I fully agree with the suggestion tho practice on the offcuts first as you only get one chance to get it right. Remember the old saying "measure it twice - cut it once".

One final word of advise would be to use 40mm worktops, with 30mm tops leave you very little room for error when cutting the keyholes & bolting up.

Hope it helps

 

Marc

[sheldonrobbo]

[quote user="marc62"]

Hi All

 

A question that I am fully qualified to respond too! does not happen very often.

As the general manager for one of the largest kitchen manufactures & fully responsible for installations (installed 32,000 kitchens in 2007) I would not recomend the method which has been suggested.

I reccomend that a masons mitre is used to make a good level joint, a jig is to be used (trend is the preffered choice but they can be hired) any decent kitchen fitter will have one. A router is to be used to cut the tops, a blade with a double cutting edged is better choice. The cut edges are to be sealed, silicone is to be used to seal the edges, do not use PVA glue, varnish or paint as the board will act like a sponge & it will create a ridge in time. Three bolts are also to be used to pull them together even. If you follow the guidelines you will achieve a perfect joint which you should not be able to feel. I fully agree with the suggestion tho practice on the offcuts first as you only get one chance to get it right. Remember the old saying "measure it twice - cut it once".

One final word of advise would be to use 40mm worktops, with 30mm tops leave you very little room for error when cutting the keyholes & bolting up.

Hope it helps

 

Marc

[/quote]

 

 

As a kitchen fitter with 20+ years experience, i agree with all the above . The only additional thing i recomend is to use biscuit joints between the worktop bolts to align the worktop perfectly. If this this all sounds a bit complicated then i suggest you get a pro in to get the job done right. Worktops aren't cheap and in my experience people rarely save money doing it themselves.

 

good luck

[BIG MAC]

 I would recommend judicious use of velcro................

[PaulT]

[quote user="Artois"]

Hi Paul

My OH has done it once on a previous kitchen worktop. He recommends having a good practise first as it is quite tricky. However worth the effort rather than those unhygienic jointing strips.

Just wondered where you obtained your jig? We searched high and low in France and finally managed to borrow one from a friend in the UK. We are to do our new kitchen work top shortly but now wonder if we have the right guide as it is a straight edged worktop not a roll top type.

courage!

[/quote]

Artois - I have not obtained a jig yet - wanted to ask questions first prior to buying as they are not cheap.

To everyone else thanks very much for the advice and tips. Just need to decide how brave I feel.

Paul

[bejay]

[quote user="sheldonrobbo"][quote user="marc62"]

Hi All

 

A question that I am fully qualified to respond too! does not happen very often.

As the general manager for one of the largest kitchen manufactures & fully responsible for installations (installed 32,000 kitchens in 2007) I would not recomend the method which has been suggested.

I reccomend that a masons mitre is used to make a good level joint, a jig is to be used (trend is the preffered choice but they can be hired) any decent kitchen fitter will have one. A router is to be used to cut the tops, a blade with a double cutting edged is better choice. The cut edges are to be sealed, silicone is to be used to seal the edges, do not use PVA glue, varnish or paint as the board will act like a sponge & it will create a ridge in time. Three bolts are also to be used to pull them together even. If you follow the guidelines you will achieve a perfect joint which you should not be able to feel. I fully agree with the suggestion tho practice on the offcuts first as you only get one chance to get it right. Remember the old saying "measure it twice - cut it once".

One final word of advise would be to use 40mm worktops, with 30mm tops leave you very little room for error when cutting the keyholes & bolting up.

Hope it helps

 

Marc

[/quote]

 

 

As a kitchen fitter with 20+ years experience, i agree with all the above . The only additional thing i recomend is to use biscuit joints between the worktop bolts to align the worktop perfectly. If this this all sounds a bit complicated then i suggest you get a pro in to get the job done right. Worktops aren't cheap and in my experience people rarely save money doing it themselves.

 

good luck

[/quote]

Very good full advice. Its a help to use a sharp new router bit and if possible fit the worksurfaces soon after buying them..If the are left stored in poor conditions they can develop a very slight cup across the face, only a fraction of a millimetre but it doesn't make the job any easier!

bj

[LEO]

[quote user="P2"][quote user="Artois"]

Hi Paul

My OH has done it once on a previous kitchen worktop. He recommends having a good practise first as it is quite tricky. However worth the effort rather than those unhygienic jointing strips.

Just wondered where you obtained your jig? We searched high and low in France and finally managed to borrow one from a friend in the UK. We are to do our new kitchen work top shortly but now wonder if we have the right guide as it is a straight edged worktop not a roll top type.

courage!

[/quote]

Artois - I have not obtained a jig yet - wanted to ask questions first prior to buying as they are not cheap.

To everyone else thanks very much for the advice and tips. Just need to decide how brave I feel.

Paul

[/quote]

Leo writes;

Has anyone managed to find a worktop jig in France ?.

"Toolstation" in Pompey have one for £29.95 but, when you add the ferry cost,  whoops!

[Chancer]

I found one in my cellar Leo!

I had been looking for it for over 6 months [:D]

I spent the next 6 months looking for the pegs which I eventually found I had stored in the cutter box so I wouldnt lose them.

I may have Altzheimers but at least I dont have Altzheimers! [:-))]

I dont think that they exist in France Leo, even the most expensive craftsmen made kitchens that I have seen sport those horrible aluminium cover trims, one soi disant craftsman ha tried to cut his own, as I used to do with quite some success, the result was an abortion totally spoiling a €40k kitchen, I reckon he just wanted to save a couple of Euros, the customers are very proud of his work [blink] - syas it all really.

Even Leroy Merlin who spend a lot of time and effort to make probably the best merchandise displays in France use the ali trims.

I am always bringing stuff back from Toolstation and Screwfix, I can bring one back in July if you like but you would have to organise the collection from me.

[BIG MAC]

aRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! YUKKKKKK!!! Please don't try to achieve an acceptable finish with a Jig saw!

Ideal tool is a decent sized router with a felt pad under the router face to incline the bit ever so slightly. This will give the tight joint referred to earlier.

 

 

 

[quote user="Gastines"]

As an add-on to Gluesticks advice.Make sure you are using the correct "upside down" worktop blade,Teeth are opposite to normal cut, otherwise you will get a nice splintered edge!!

Regards.

[/quote]

[Gastines]

Usually get mine cut to plan by a chap with all the gear in UK but here I have put 4 kitchens in and due to Longere walls not being exactly square, I have managed to do the job with the jigsaw to perfection. My French neighbour who is an excellent tradesman asked me how I managed to get such a good finish!!I add a thin coat of clear silicon and pull in bolts.No problems yet

Regards.

[BIG MAC]

I can assure you I have fitted a fair few worktops in my time also and have tried every trick in the book my £200 scrolling / pedulaum jigsaw will not provide anything like the accuracy of cut that my £70 odd ....screwfix router will consistently.

As an aside I used to buy predominately Makita kitwhen I was trades person however as things get replaced I have been buying Screwfix's Erbauer stuff and by and large it's extremely good for the price

[Chancer]

I have never yet experienced a jigsaw that would cut a straight line both sides of the work, that is to say the blade remaining at 90 degrees to the tool, even my bandsaw suffers with this.

All the worktops that I have done by hand were with a freshly sharpened handsaw passed down to me from my father and grandfather. I have done some acceptable joints but nothing touches a good router and template job.

As an aside I have recently started using a very cheap toolstation tri-cut saw and am very very impressed, it has a tooth form like the japanese saws that I use for fine work, I used it to fit 4 veluxes a couple of weeks ago, it cut through the chevrons like butter yet could still trim fine slices off the lattes.

[LEO]

Hi JR, it's kind of you to offer and thank you however, I

will be going to UK

in July when I will purchase a jig from Toolstation.

[Chancer]

Leo, I now buy most of my fixings, tools etc from them and only about 10% from screwfix, as you know their prices are much lower but I have also found that their stuff is good quality even when at budget prices.

I have been particularly impressed with all manner of tools from Silverline, for the price I expected something 3rd rate but everything has been top quality.

I say this because some of the E-bay sellers of worktop jigs try to rubbish the Silverline one by saying things like "ours are made made of phenolic resin unlike the cheap Silverline ones" etc etc.

Make sure that you stock up on cutters, if I can I use a new one on each job to avoid even the tiniest of chip-out.

[BIG MAC]

I live in Portsmouth and usually take the chunnel when coming over so if needs be and you aren't too far off the beaten track I could probably help...or even PM me and I could meet at services or something?

Cheers,

[tonyv]

Hi all,

I'm about to fit my kitchen, and discover that I have no clamps for the worktops, nor the hole cutters. Normally, in the UK I'd nip in to Screwfix and get some, however, in deepest Ariege, I don't have any option but Mr Bricolage.

Noe of my usual harware suppliers (Screwfix, Toolbank, tooled-up) seem to want to deliver to France. Any suggestions for a UK supplier who will ship?

Am I correct in thinking these things don't exist in France. If they do, what are they called, and does anyone have a link to a supplier, please?

Grateful for any suggestions

[Chancer]

I have never found them in France, I even once knocked on the door of a house with a kitchen fitters van outside, talked to the guy, even taking him my gabarit so that he would understand better, he didnt think that they existed in France and could not see the need for them when he could just butcher the worktops with a jigsaw and slop silicone over the gaps.

At the time I was cutting and shutting two hardwood staircases to make one (I have very tall ceilings) so I had to fabricate some instead, I will be bringing back a big stock of them next trip to England so if you are still stuck I could post some to you at the end of July.

[dexter]

I know this thread has been going for some time but I assume that all the worktops being fitted are of the laminated surface type, (chipboard with Formica type surface and curved (post formed) edge).

As with other posters advice I agree that the best results are from a jig using a router to make the cuts. 

However, If the worktop is solid timber then the general rule is that the tops should only be butted together. Due to the expansion and contraction of the wood no matter how dry it may seem to be, if a masons mitre is cut using the aforementioned jig, you will always get a gap at the mitre. Joining the two butted edges together is done the same way as previously described with bolts and biscuits.

I don't know how to post a link to other sites but if you go to uk workshop.com and search on posts submitted by a member caller Argee he has posted a very comprehensive article on using worktop jigs. It`s also not a bad site for information about all sorts of woodworking.

Hope this is of some help.

Edit, Sorry the site is ukworkshop.co.uk       

[BIG MAC]

I would agree biscuit jointing works well with wood however its perfectly possible to biscuit joint and masons mitre at the same time. I used the dog bone bolts to pull the joint together and to squeeze the glue out once the joint is set up I remove the bolts their job is done and the spectre of  movement all but eliminated.

[sharkhunter]

Buy some threaded bar and bolts/washers to suit and some 10 mm steel bar, depth of cut in worktop, and bend bar to suit holes. Drill a hole same as threaded bar and make your own, not pretty but practical.

[Chancer]

Thats what I did but with the materials available to hand, I think that I used an arret de volet, I havnt yet fallen through the staircases where the stringers are held together with the improvised fixings.