Pommier Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Our house is 3 1/2 years old, though only lived in for the last 2 years. The VMC stopped working, so I phoned the electricians who had originally done the wiring when the house was built. The man who came said that the motor was burnt out and replaced it. The bill arrived today for €447. That seems a lot to me, but is that about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You can check out some typical VMC prices here:http://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits/chauffage-plomberie/traitement-de-l-air/vmc-ventilation-mecanique-controlee-l1308217852 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Looks like a rip off compared with those prices; the 'groupe' was all that was replaced (not the whole VMC) and that was billed at €298 plus TVA plus fitting. Oh well, we won't ever call them again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I posted on another thread that my electrician charges 40€ an hour.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 NH, that doesn't sound a lot to me. Good for you though , if that is all he is charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 The HLM on the lotissement behind us lost a complete house just before xmas when the VMC caught fire in the roof and the whole lot went up in minutes. Appears it was a cheap installation due to the budgets given for building such cheap housing and no one has ever inspected it since the tenant moved in. Thankfully the lady was saved by a neighbour breaking the door down and rousing her. I will never forget seeing that place go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex H Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote user="Val_2"]Appears it was a cheap installation due to the budgets given for building such cheap housing[/quote]That in itself does not make it a bad installation, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 When we had our house built we fitted an expensive one and that lasted about 10-12 years and then we fitted one for around 600ff and that last and was going fine when we left. It was always on. Our neighbours had problems as they would turn theirs on and off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote user="Alex H"][quote user="Val_2"]Appears it was a cheap installation due to the budgets given for building such cheap housing[/quote]That in itself does not make it a bad installation, does it?[/quote]It doesn't have to be a bad installation just a motor running too hot which could be a dry bearing etc. In a nice air flow and et voila a small furnace. I noticed from SD's link a big variation in price so exclude the cheap ones and assume some quality and you bill doesn't look quite as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 After having repaired 3 of my own and recycled countless others I can say with 99% confidence that all that would have been necessary to effect a 100% repair would be to replace one or preferably both capacitors, parts cost, retail in UK (Maplin) less than £2Word got out and a couple of electricians have since come to me with failed VMC's cleaned up repackaged the boxes of the new ones, they wanted me to recondition them so they can just swap them out on site and charge for a new one each time.Given that these self same electricians have refused to help me in any way in the past in terms of passing on their knowledge on matters like colonne collectifs etc I gave them the bums rush.EdittedThéière. You can stall the motors for months on end and they are barely warm to the touch even on the high setting, that is what happens when the capacitors fail, I have found that the cheapest and even the mid range and more expensive ones are equally liable to capacitor failure, lets face it in this day and age how many manufacturers, and of course the vast majority no longer manufacture have the means to control what quality of parts are being used in the couple of Chinese factories that make the branded VMC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex H Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote user="Théière"][quote user="Alex H"][quote user="Val_2"]Appears it was a cheap installation due to the budgets given for building such cheap housing[/quote]That in itself does not make it a bad installation, does it?[/quote]It doesn't have to be a bad installation just a motor running too hot which could be a dry bearing etc. In a nice air flow and et voila a small furnace. I noticed from SD's link a big variation in price so exclude the cheap ones and assume some quality and you bill doesn't look quite as bad.[/quote]So that won't happen at all with the expensive ones then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pommier Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I suppose it's just one of those things. I'd have preferred a cheap one as we'll be selling the house this year, but it had to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Alex we would like to think it wouldn't happen but as Chancer has the experience and I bow to his knowledge and experience it's first hand after all.If the fault was installation these units use so little power it's hard to figure out unless it was water ingress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There are 2 very tangible advantages to using an expensive brand of VMC neither of which benefit the customer [:(]The installer will be able to get it replaced FOC by the manufacturer and maybe up to 3 years, however you can bet your bottom dollar the customer will be told 1 year when it becomes faulty.There will be a ridiculously high "trade price" to con the customer with allowing the installer to make 3, 4, 500% mark up secure in the knowledge that you wont find the same model in Leroy Merlin, at that stage of course they will be extolling the benefits of its quality and 3 year guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 It is only a box with vent holes and a fan. Why so expensive? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote user="idun"]NH, (€40 per hour) that doesn't sound a lot to me. Good for you though , if that is all he is charging.[/quote]That is only part of the story, the materials he will be making 400% on, you try to get an electrician to work labour only, the whole system is corrupt, I recently posted about a 25 meter length of 110mm gaine that would have been billed to the customer at €450 which eventually cost me the tradesmans price of €29, things like coffret de communications, GTL's heating, VMC's etc are just a license to print money.I have a friend who is a property developer, every couple of years he gets a job with a building company as a sales manager, its mainly to build a couple more houses for his-self using the sub contractors who are keen to keep in with him all the time he has influence.These self same electricians when they work for the building companies get only €1000 for all the electrical work on an average 100M2 pavilion, the constructor supplies all the materials (they aint stupid) and the sparks use their own fixings and consumeables within the €1000.My friend got three of these electrical sub-contractors to price the electrics on his sisters new house, admittedly it was closer to 200m2, their prices came in at between €12000 and €15000, they were in short having a larf and shot themselves in the foot.My friend and his nephew did the work themselves for €2500 cash and they did very well out of it, the materials came from a company he has used often, they work from the CAD drawings of the building and everything is pre-made in their factory, all gaines cabled, cut to exact length and terminated with stripped cable ends or ferrules, everything labelled including the tableau, coffret de comms which was a top of the range one that I have seen billed out at €1600 before, done that way it really is as easy as putting together a flat pack wardrobe, my friend will be the first to tell you he is no electrician but frankly neither are most of the guys that cable the pavilions, his work passed Consuel without any comment.The cost of all the electrical equipment supplied as above with step by step instructions and a schema for the Consuel inspection? - €2500TTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Whilst that may sound excessive, in how many other industries and professions does the same thing occur? It is always easy to blame builders and allied trades but there are plenty of white collar workers who also get paid far more than they deserve and the customer just pays up after all they wear a shirt a tie, they wouldn't charge a 400% markup or ridiculous rates. Some time back Chancer you mentioned Macess, remember on their invoices they used to state the rrp and the percentage markup, never less than 300% frequently 400%. In the oil and gas industry huge daily rates applied to work, My O/H was charged to customers as a technical assistant (never a secretary) for a paltry £750 /day. They also used the word change facility on the computer to edit reports paid for by one customer with a new customer name and re sold for the full amount £££.Frequently on the forum the mention of spectacles and I know the ludicrous rip off they are, reading glasses at over 1000% markup half of that for prescription glasses and that's just the discount end lets not touch "designer goods". In short the world is one big glass house and better we don't throw stones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Good points, re the "recommended trade" prices on Macess and other motor factor invoices often these are far higher than the main dealers!In the white collar professions (unreasonable) price is used as a percieved indicator of quality, same as with luxury goods. I realise that you were only using your good lady as an example, the people who I have little time for are those that say "Oh I am billed out at XYZ per day" and believe therefore that they are worth it, ditto those who say my accountant/lawyer/doctor charges XYZ so he must be far better than yours.I strongly believe that France should remove the requirement to split parts and labour on a devi, I would go further and say it should be outlawed, I believe a devi should carry a full specification of the job including materials/parts with manufacturers references as appropriate and the price for the job, it would be a good idea to also insist that they carry a fixed labour charge or dayrate for extras. This would stop the tromperie at a stroke and you would then start to see the real rate earned by artisans.On the other hand the less literate/itelligent would be disadvantaged when quoting an equal price, they may not be able to dress up their offering in such attractive terms, communicating the advantages and how exactly their system would work, I was always very good at that in the UK and I believed that often when price was not a deciding factor that I was chosen by my customers as they had greater confidence in me.Of course that would work against me in France with French not being my mother tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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