LesFlamands

It's not clear from your description of the installation but you need a liner to the top of the chimney - this will solve most condensation problems. Getting the flue pipe vertical will also help. What type of wood are you burning? Any wood is acceptable except pine. Walnut and very dense types tend to give out very little heat, the best is oak or chesnut.

As far as I am aware, unlike a limited company in the UK the principal director (Gerant) of an SARL or EURL does not benefit from the limited liability but is responsible for all the debts of the company. In the case of the SARL the associate directors do benefit from the limited liability. You can protect your personal assets by other means - see your Notaire and don't forget your cheque book.

I've installed a few over the years which were supplied by a very high quality refurb company in the UK. The problem is that oil fired AGAs don't work in France because 28sec. Kerosene isn't available. The refurbished ones converted to gas probably still don't conform in France (but if CE accredited  are fine in the rest of the EU). I think the best bet is to buy new from Paul Gee and before you go for gas ask him what he thinks of the new electric models as they may be cheaper to run.

Get a good builder to do it, he should be able to give you much more useful information.

Any

It's hard to know where to draw the line if you are a private individual and unaffected  by the person who you know is working on the black. I would report anyone who takes my business away. If I were to quote for a job and the job is awarded to someone else who I know is not registered or not registered for the trades involved or is not insured, I would not hesitate to report them to the authorities. I would, however, wait until they were working on site so that they would be caught in the act.

[quote user="Will"] Actual cotisations paid by employers are about 40% of salary. But as Les Flamands and Val say, there are all the other costs too. That is based on being paid at SMIC level, I believe that paying over the SMIC attacts extra costs. [/quote] Caisse Conges Paye is 20% and URSSAF is more than that, Assedic and Pro BTP as well. I was told that the basic cotisation was something like 68% then you have to add all the little bits and pieces. It's not just the cost but it's also an administrative nightmare. If you ever get to the stage of giving an employee a CDI your locked in for life. Everyones after the elusive CDI as it makes them creditworthy with the bank. I still feel, however, we are missing some vital piece of information that only the native French employers and employees know about as I can't understand why and how so many people are so prosperous. If, as we a re lead to believe, some vast percentage (50%??) of the French workforce are on the minimum wage (SMIC, approx. 1250 euros a month before cotis. personnel of about 20%) how does anyone afford a mortgage or a new car?

Very hard to work out as bills keep arriving even months after the contract has finished. In the building industry (where paid holiday is compulsory) my accountant reckons it's about 110% of the salary. 35 hours a week is a full time contract.

We use a product called 'Airflex' which works out at about 10 euros a metre (HT) and find it extremely good but it does have to be fitted carefully. It is also essential that there is an air gap on both sides and it is sealed effectively at the eaves and gables. We used over 500 metres last year.

A wood fired heating system will need an open vent which would normally feed back into the header tank at the highest point in the system. One or more radiators will need to be on the gravity circuit to provide some heat dissapation in the event of a power cut or pump failure. The remaining radiators can be on the pumped circuit and can, therefore, be at the same level or lower than the boiler. There are a number of other design considerations in order to create a safe and efficient heating system.

Apologies to those who think this thread has gone too far away from the original post. I think it is important that those who are trying their best to be legal and make ends meet have as much accurate information as possible. Firstly, as a micro entreprise, you cannot make a loss. Your BIC is going to be 48% of your turnover. If your turnover is very low and your BIC in the first year (or part of the year) is below the 'plafond de securite social' you may well receive a rebate on the cotisations paid in year 1 in year 3. I can't be sure about this as I've not come across this situation, but if you think you've been overcharged you can write to the various 'caisses' and ask them to bring your account and payments up to date (I once got a completely free year of pension paymants by doing this). It used to be that if your first year was only a part year they would calculate you full years earnings on a pro-rata basis to calculate the cotisations due in year 3 but they now seem to take your actual BIC even if you were only registered for for part of the year and use this to calculate the cotisation due in year 3. My company uses a number of artisans who are registered as micro ents. (not that it makes any difference to your cotisations) and some of these have had something of a cotisation holiday in year 3 due to a low BIC in year 1 and then had trouble paying their cotisations in year 4. The various bodies who collect the charges seem determined to make these anomolies and the way they are dealt with as mysterious as possible and even my very experienced accountant is unable to explain or resolve some of these. 

[quote user="Victor Meldrew"] I think that confirms my thoughts, so the best time to start a business must therefore be as late in the year as possible. Victor [/quote] Unfortunately not as they make up for the underpaid cotisations in the following year so you end up paying your full cotisation and the arrears and, I believe, they charge you the 10% majoration on the arrears

Under the micro regime you don't have to account for expenditure. You tell the impots your turnover/receipts and they deduct 52% (for artisans) which is how they arrive at your profit which is then used to calculate next years cotisations. So, as you say, your profit is linked to your turnover and may not be an indication of your actual income. The micro ent. is OK if you are just providing a service (sub-contract labour) as your expenses are unlikely to be 52% of your turnover so you benefit as you have more 'income' than you are paying cotisations on. However, if you are supplying materials, running your own vehicle and buying tools there very quickly comes a point where a micro ent. is really bad news because not only would your allowable expenses be more than 52% of your turnover but also you have no way of reclaiming TVA paid (on materials, fuel, tools etc. etc.). In many cases your clients suffer as well because, whilst you're not charging TVA on your labour you have to pass on the TVA paid on materials. A TVA registered business can often charge 5.5% TVA on both labour and materials supplied to the customer.

Now I'm confused. It may be different if the business is a Societe (where you would draw a salary) but if you are what is called in the UK a sole trader (Entreprise individuelle here) then your income is the difference between money coming in (turnover) and money going out (expenditure) which also includes cotisations. The result is your profit (or loss) which is known as your 'Benefice' or BIC. If you make large investments (in plant or buildings, for example) you can only count a percentage each year as expenditure and the rest has to be found from income or finance, but if you are having trouble covering cotisations you wouldn't normally be making large investments unless that is the nature of the business (property development, for example). With the French system if you declare a loss, you will still have to pay cotisations in the following year as, I presume, you would still have to pay NI in the UK. The difference is the level of the payments - in the UK the compulsory element is peanuts but here it is the difference between a viable and non-viable business.

[quote user="Jane and Danny"] I'm not sure I understand you correctly. The cotisations, as you know, are based on your income, not profit. If your income is high then the charges will be higher. regardless of your other expenditure. Below a certain amount you are not liable to pay URSSAF. Last year, I paid the minimum for the health part - 460 euros - for 6 months. It is not a huge amount really. Also, no one can help themselves to money in your bank account if there is none there. [/quote] If you are an 'Entreprise Individuelle' your profit (BIC) is your income. The cotisations paid during the year are deducted from your gross profit to give you the net profit figure which is then used to calculate your cotisation for the following year. I didn't know that you didn't pay the URSSAF below a certain level, in fact, I thought it was the one cotisation you had to pay if you paid nothing else. The URSSAF and the Impots (TVA) will happily freeze your bank account if you are overdrawn and then have their dues as soon as the account goes into credit. they can do this without notifying you and the first you know about it is when cheques start bouncing. As Gastines says communication is the best policy (with the bank as well) ideally, face to face, but even then it doesn't always overcome the problem. An English accountant working in France once said to me that the difference between the UK and France is that it is not a crime to be unable to pay in the UK. Not quite true though, as I hear the Inland Revenue can be pretty heavy handed these days. The worst thing to get into problems with both here and in the UK is non payment of VAT/TVA as this is money that you've collected on their behalf and wasn't yours to spend in the first place. Sorry to be so cheerful!

[quote user="Victor Meldrew"] It is not that I do not have the work, my books are full for approx the next 6 to 8 months with more in the pipeline, I just cannot turn around the work fast enough to make it earn a living with all of the charges. It makes you wonder if it is worth slogging your butt off for sod all [/quote] Victor, you have so much work booked up because you're undercharging. You need to be earning at least 150 euros a day (clear). You may get knocked back on some estimates and have a smaller order book but at least you'll be able to pay your bills. If you have a lot of orders that you are going to make a loss on you'd do better to tell the clients now rather than struggle for the next six months. you may find some will be reasonable and let you charge a higher rate. Also, avoid jobs that you're not skilled at. In my experience (I've been registered for 14 years) cotisations are only deferred and even then usually attract a 10% majoration. You can opt to pay by standing order or 3 payments which sometimes doesn't get the 10% added.

John, you need the 10mm rope available from the bricos. It's best to replace the ropes rather than re-glue the existing as they tend to wear on the hinge side of the doors. The glue supplied with the kits works well but you need to clean the metal thouroughly, wire brush then white spirit. Cut the new rope to length and apply glue. You will need a number of those spring type clamps to hold the rope in place whilst the glue dries. You may need to adjust the door catch slightly until the new seals settle in.

Aly, I would be interested to know how a newly registered Artisan or commercant (not profession liberale) can take advantage of earnings related cotisation payments in the first (and, maybe, second) year of operating. I know of a number of recently registered Artisans who are all paying their regular cotisations which works out at about 400 euros a month. This will rise to about 500 euros in the second year and the third years payments will be based on the first years profit. Taking advantage of the exonerations if you've been unemployed or on the RMI is a long winded process which has to be handled carefully (or you can loose you rights very easily), but I do know of people who have been able to take advantage of the scheme

[quote user="Gastines"] Although I'm now retired and this doesn't affect me,regarding the payments to all and sundry becoming payable on starting a business,I'm sure I was told if you are actually unemployed and are starting a new business to give yourself employment,the payments for the first 2 years are offset!!! So if you started up as a Painter/Decorator or a Gardner, you could save yourself the initial outlay of approx 3000 euros. Perhaps some member could clarify this point,if I'm correct : I'm often not:, make this detail available to other members. [/quote] If you are a foreigner and registered unemployed (looking for work but no financial benefit) or on the RMI for a period of time (a year?), then when you start a business you may be eligible for a grant (in some areas) but you also get an exoneration on your social charge payments for a year and possibly a reduction in the second year. New law,  introduced this year I think, for new businesses starting in areas classified as 'Rural development zones' you are exonerated from income tax for up to 15 years! If you don't benefit from the above you will have to pay social charges at about 400 euros a month even if you don't earn a cent.

[quote user="Gluestick"] However, my core point was that there is little different between the UK and France. [/quote] The fact that the payments are compulsory and start on day one makes a big difference. A lot of potentially legally minded types have veered away from registering and are working on the black because of the fixed charges due in the first year before they've had a chance to get established. Property owners are their own worst enemy. They are creating the market for the cut price cowboys because they didn't do their research before taking the plunge and buying a rubbish piece of French real estate. Even with the current inflated prices for old barns you would still need to budget a factor of twice the purchase price for a professional conversion. I meet people all the time that think the French economy runs on buttons.

[quote user="Gluestick"] The only real difference to me, seems to be that French authorities take this more seriously: and actually do something, rather than talk about it in parliament. [/quote] The real difference to the legally working Artisan is the level of charges levied. A one man band who has been established a couple of years would probably expect to pay about 1200 to 1500 euros a month to cover his social charges and insurances. That could be 75 euros a day which the black worker can undercut or pocket (not to mention TVA)

[quote user="oakbri"] To be fair I think you will find France has its fair share of cowboys. I always bring builders over from the UK simply because it is far cheaper. I use builders I know and trust so I have had only good experiences. I recently needed a whole room plastering. I asked a French company to give me a "devis" for the work. They quoted me over 4000 euros. I obviously binned the quote. Called my friend in the UK who got me a plasterer for 250 pounds a day. I bought him a low cost flight ticket. He came, did the job in 2 days and it was perfect. As you can imagine I saved a huge amount of money. [/quote] If they are cheaper it is simply because they are not paying tax, social charges or decennale insurance and therefore working illegally. They come from the UK so if there's trouble they just go home but as you have property here and are blatantly breaking the law you could land yourself with a very heavy fine or even a short spell at the Republics pleasure. If you look you'll find that French rates are less than £250 a day. We charge a lot less than that and we're considered expensive by some. Some Artisans here as in the UK try overcharging because they're overloaded with work or probaly think you're going to be a tricky customer.

I'm looking for masons with experience if reinforced concrete and block construction. You will need to be fully legal. Full time sub-contract is available but other ways of working together will be considered. You will need to live in the area shown on this map:  http://www.hautefortrenovation.com/img6.gif and be able to work as part of the existing team

[quote user="chris pp"] I just can't get worked up about it, too busy with my own life. [/quote] Chris, I don't know how you make you're living but I, like you, couldn't get worked up about it for years when it (the brits working on the black) didn't affect my livelyhood. These days there are so many brits. trying to scratch a living by doing bad building work for other brits. that it now can't be ignored. The most ridiculous aspect is that there are so many owners who think they're getting work done at an advantageous price when, in fact, they are being ripped off with poor quality work at high prices with no insurance cover and no invoice.

It's quite difficult for the French to be totally outside of the system but in certain trades (gardening, catering etc.) it is normal to pay cash in hand which, in my view, is fine. Those on the RMI or Chomage doing a bit of cash work is not unusual. The ones I have a problem with are the brits who are avoiding the system but also charging their customers more than the normal rate telling the naive twits that it's the best rate they'll get in France. In these situations the customer is at risk of being prosecuted as well. This subject always tends to generate heated responses. I hope the 'clampdown' achieves something. If I had the time you'd find me applauding from the public gallery in the courthouse when the prison sentences and deportation orders are handed out.