Logan

"Sorry I don't understand French". (They will most likely then leave you alone, unless of course you are unlucky enough to meet a bilingual copper.)[:)]

[quote user="ali-cat"] I fear that this question will have everyone one screaming "not again!!" (especially Ron, sorry!) Mark & I are both on E121's - as we are medically retired (both in our 40's).  I have been receiving 100% back on all my medication, but I am a little concerned that my attestation has an expiry date of 30/09/07.   Surely if I'm on an E121 it should not expire - or do I just have to re-apply to CPAM, or will they just send out a replacement?  Also, one of the posts above said that an E121 covers 60-70% - my attestation says 100% ..... how do I know what I'm covered 100% for?!! Aaaagggghhh!! [8-)] Confused of Charente Maritime!!    [/quote] In the case of invalidity CPAM attestations have an expiry date. Usually they get renewed automatically on proof the invalidity continues. I should take evidence of that along to CPAM and you should receive another one. You are covered 100% because it's invalidity not retirement. Although in that case if your income is below a certain level you receive 100% with a free top up. Dont ask me what the level is but it's quite low. 

Ron wrote -How many more times Logan???  When conflicting advice is given both here and elsewhere I prefer to seek wider and more in depth resources than one persons opinion. By debate a subject becomes clearer. if health care is an EU wide system as you seem to believe, why does the UK provide it free and in other EU countries nationals have to pay???   I was writing only with regards to the administrative arrangements for healthcare within the EU for EU nationals as enshrined in treaty, not member states own arrangements within their boarders.

Yes Poppy, Spain is in the process of tightening their process for healthcare. Probably because of the sheer number of EU citizens arriving there. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml;jsessionid=PQMZPLVU3FLSPQFIQMGSFF4AVCBQWIV0?xml=/global/2007/08/21/healthcare-in-spain.xml  The Swedish case posted here is interesting but it seems to make clear that it depends on the individual member states social security regulations. So it really takes us back to square one. I am trying to discover the solution to this for a relative so will persevere.   

This is advice from a Spanish Government site for people moving to Costa Blanca, Spain but applies to France equally since it's all related to EU legislation. B) If you are of pensionable age, and intend to live in Spain. you can contact the DHS and request a form E121. This is applicable for British men over 65 years old and women over 60 years old. However, the Costa Blanca will only accept this form if you apply for, or hold, a Residencia card. The E121 should be handed to the Seguridad Social (Social Security) office in Denia. It provides permanent health cover and does not need to be renewed. You will be issued with a temporary health card, and in due course, will receive a permanent card and letter confirming the details of your designated doctor and clinic. This will always be in your area, i.e. if you live in Javea, you will be assigned a doctor at the Javea health centre This advice seems to suggest that retirement age is the key to an E121 not the receipt of a pension. I have trawled through DSS and many other related sites and the question is never answered. I will wager that if you ask them at Newcastle they will give a cough and a splutter and say they will call you back. However thanks for the offer Poppy. Don't hold your breath waiting.

Gardian.- If the E121 has been issued to your wife then you will be included and your medical costs covered. (65% -70%) Once you reach 65 you will be covered in your own right. Can anyone answer the question of does a woman who reaches the retirement age of 60 without any pension at all still qualify for an E121? I believe she does but I'm not sure. The class B NI contributions were just that. To cover medical care, not pension. So presumably that continues when living in another EU country but now exempt from contributions because of age.  

Hindsight's great, Logan.  And I'm sure that it's nice and convenient just to blame the women in question Hang on a minute Copperlola I don't think I suggested a blame game or offered up any lecture? I simply seek to understand, ask and occasionally offer an opinion which is the point of a forum is it not. The social conditions you describe no doubt did exist but according to the statistics only among 48% of the female population. ie: those who have no pension. If statistics are to mean anything can we then accept the remainder did take the trouble to provide thenselves with the necessary support. I don't know the answer to that. However I do know that a large section of the female population did pay class A and have a full pension. Don't assume that the same cultural values prevail in all sections of society.

Thanks be to Ron whose link to the Hansard debate was a great contribution here and makes the position clearer. I do sympathise with Poppy’s situation and for other women in a similar position. However I don’t really think it was the fault of government. The class B contribution was designed to help women on low incomes. I believe the level of contribution was half that of a class A payment. Effectively it allowed women more disposable income during their working lives and a choice as to how they would spend it. Unfortunately you cannot have your cake and eat it too. I believe that responsibility for your own financial security rests with the individual not governments. Information on the consequences of paying class B contributions was available but I accept in a less than accessible information age, not so easy to find. It’s still the case today that a large majority of working people make no provision for their old age and rely on the state. That’s fine if there is traditionally no alternative as in France. However even that is now changing. One thing I am still not clear about is can a woman who reaches the age of 60 but without a pension still get a form E121? Reading the wording it looks to me like she can because 60 is the current 'retirement age' for women, pension or not. 

The delay will almost certainly have to do with the granting of a CU. Certificate of Urbanisim. This is the outline planning consent. Currently it's taking a minimum of 6 months to have a CU authorised. Take no notice of your agent they will tell you any old flannel. Speak to the Notaire involved and insist on an end date. I am in a similar position right now and flannel is what you get at every turn. Nobody wants to admit to the frustrating snails pace bureaucracy of France.[:@]

OK folks so according to the Guardian 50% of women don’t qualify for a pension of any kind. Also it takes 9 years of class A contributions to qualify for a minimum pension. That accepted, I am now very curious to know the status in society of these women (or men). Even whilst receiving state benefits a class A stamp is credited. I can understand the case where women stay at home to care for family or a disabled relative. However even in these cases surely a few years of work would be involved. They leave school have a job for a while before marriage. Then when kids leave home opportunity for work would come along. Or perhaps these women (or men) are the idyll rich and don’t need to work. Part time work I suppose would not involve a class A contribution and married women had the option not to pay the full contribution. However in that event they surely would be aware no pension would result at 60. I am just perplexed that so many women throughout their lives would take no responsibility to provide themselves with a pension. Perhaps it's a generation thing. Women today have better status and independence and are no longer an extention of their husbands.  

OK Ron I accept that women who reach 60 do not always receive a pension. However they must have made NO class A contributions in their working life. Even just a few years contribution will qualify for a pension of some kind. You are correct that 'qualifying for a pension' is the necessary criteria for an E121 but once done if she happens to be married to a younger man they both will receive free medical benefits in France, even if the younger man is not dependent. I don't understand where the word dependency has come from in this context. Perhaps you can explain. I think dependance in this instance means living together not financially dependent.

My use of the word appendage was solely in an administrative sense. Ron’s advice runs contrary to the information I have been given by DSS in UK and CPAM. The rules which govern these arrangements are written in the EU treaty of Maastricht. You can find it on line if you have a couple of days to spare. The treaty laid down the rules which would regulate cross boarder national insurance and medical care for EU citizens. My point is that CPAM and UK DSS must follow the treaty arrangements and not pick and choose. If a EU citizen is in receipt of a state pension or some disability benefits then a form E121 is issued to allow for medical care in another member state. Obviously age and eligibility to state pension go hand in hand. The exception is the others spouse. They receive as a RIGHT an inclusion on the form E121. Dependence has nothing to do with it. A means test would be needed.

[quote user="bosie"]Why are British people who go to live abroad are "ex-pats" yet people who go to live in the UK are "immigrants"?[/quote] Wikipedia writes thus:- An expatriate (in abbreviated form, expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country and culture other than that of the person's upbringing or legal residence. Immigration is the movement of people from one nation state to another. While human migration has existed throughout human history, immigration implies long-term permanent residence (and often eventual) citizenship by the immigrants: In other words in the heart of the expat lies a desire at some point in life to return to the mother state. An immigrant yearns for permanent acceptance and has rejected the country of origin for good. Another test is the expat reads the newspaper of the old country whilst the immigrant reads a local journal in the language of where he has settled. Norman Tebbitt’s cricket test could be another but I have never thought that an accurate indicator. How many of you will cheer France against England or your own country come the Rugby World Cup?  

You will miss the Cyprus climate in the winter. More rain and cold. Make sure your house has adequate heating and good insulation.

Once your spouse reaches retirement age in the UK ( 60 for women and 65 for men currently), you are exempt from contributions in France and receive the same benefits as if you had reached retirement age yourself. You become an appendage on the form E121 and will receive a Carte Vital in your own name. Woops.. a bit slow in answering this, someone beat me to it!

[quote user="Renaud"] I missed the 'jeans' reference too. The bit I would add to the pen portrait of the ex-pat in the bar at 10am is that this unfortunate is sure to be wearing shorts. One thing that British males over 35 should never do. Always a presentational disaster. Better to wear Jeans like Clarkson. [/quote] Images of the late and lamented Eric Morcambe spring to mind. Have you also noticed how many men of a certain age have 'chicken legs.' Yes, shorts in public are a disaster. So are men without shirts. I notice Brits walking around village markets in summer baring all. In Spain even in restaurants, [+o(]yuk.

Whilst I don’t agree with JC on many things I do think he identifies a type of ex-pat you can find anywhere in the world. I also think he writes in an entertaining and amusing way. The ex pat he describes are more than likely a minority in comparison to the whole but they do exist and sadly in ever increasing numbers. The figures recently released of the number of Brits leaving the UK indicate some dissatisfaction, failure and even adventure seekers. I accept that folks leave for many reasons just as they go back for similar cause. What I find interesting is how people adapt to life in another country and how reluctant they seem to accept the differences of culture and the values they find. The subconscious seems not to allow any manoeuvres. Brits come to France and live, think, behave mostly as Brits. Then seem surprised when the inevitable disaster falls. Change as W.B. Yeats wrote, “change comes but dropping slow”. I would suggest the émigrés who successfully assimilate themselves to the culture are not to be found pontificating in bars and cafes or dinner parties on the woes of Britain. More likely hard at work making a living to pay their way.

I have met many ex-pat Brits over the years who would fit Clarkson's description. I think particulary the 'failure' tag is appropriate. I have often employed British people in various forms both in Spain and France. Almost without exception I have been disappointed. Their attitudes, focus and standard of work leave much to be desired. The logic being that before they emigrated they were probably just as hopeless in UK. I often wonder how on earth they expect to compete in the labour market against the French who are mostly very focused, hard working and with high standards. Unfortunately 'leopards rarely change their spots' even when they try and make a fresh start. After the Chavs now come the egg & chip. Egg and chips: swell-bellied expats who sit in cafés in Spain loudly telling anyone within earshot that they had to leave Britain because it's overrun with foreigners who don't make any effort to integrate with the local culture, even as they shout their order for fried breakfast to the waiter in English. (The Telegraph 27.08.07)

Do you recognise yourself here as one of Jeremy Clarksons typical ex-pats? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/jeremy_clarkson/article2326687.ece

I very much agree with the red zones. Far to many properties have been built on land which is liable and at risk to fire during the dry summer months. The south of Europe is a tinder box in the summer. Trees and vegetation grow around the houses for shade etc and make combustible fuel for fire. The recent tragic fires in Greece serve as a warning. I managed to survive a wildfire a few years ago and lost almost everything. Living in areas at risk to fire is simply not worth it. Mairies have been very lax in recent years and allowed building in areas where wild fires flare up on average every fire years as the maquis grows and provides the fuel. 

It seems basic common sense to me to never disclose any person information about yourself on a public forum. There are many forms of predator in the world quietly waiting for a mug to pass in their sights. Humans prey on others. Just engage your brain before doing anything that involves your personal identity. I am always astonished how easily people part with sensitive information to people they know very little about.

Bernard Manning had a reputation for sending up members of his audience and trying to embarrass them. One evening during a performance a man stood up and began to walk through the rows of seats as if to leave. Manning seizing what he thought was a great opportunity called out to him, asking “where the f**k are you going”? The man replied, “Well someone told me there was a good comedian appearing tonight so I thought I would go for a piss until he comes on”. [:D] That’s a true story.

[quote user="Nicos"]Please correct me if I am wrong...... I thought most French doctors speak English to a reasonable standard- especially the younger ones- as a lot of the medical books they use at Uni are in English. If you can't find a fluent English speaker, it might be worth finding a younger doctor?? It's always reassuring when you know you have got your point accross though- and understand their response!! Good luck with your quest! [/quote] They might have knowledge of English. However the real question is are they willing to speak to you in anything other than French. Some are but many are not. The mind set in France is you should speak and understand French. These entrenched attitudes are changing very slowly, particulary in the countryside. Some areas offer English lessons to Doctors but I hear the response is very poor. Try your local CPAM web site there may be some help there.

There is an excellent vet practice in St Yriex la Perche in the Haute Vienne with two young well qualified vets from Paris who speak perfect English. It's Clinique Veterinaire de Arche Tel: 05 55 08 31 75. I have had cause to treat my two labradors there and the service and expertise could not be better.

Here is a quote from an article in today's Times :- "There is nothing new about doping during the three solid weeks of almost unimaginable pain that is the Tour de France: “purposeless suffering”, “pure sado-masochism” are two common epithets. “You’d have to be an imbecile or a hypocrite to imagine that a professional cyclist can hold himself together without stimulants,” Jacques Anquetil, five times winner of the Tour, told the newspaper L’Equipe 40 years ago. Today cyclists routinely use EPO, which increases endurance by allowing more oxygen into the blood, or testosterone which builds muscles. Alternatively, they are given nightly blood transfusions to start each day with someone else’s fresh blood. " I have read a number of interviews recently from former champions who all now admit to the use of stimulants. Greg Lamond has said that in the past if a 'clean' rider ever complained about simulant use he would be blackballed from the team. That culture now seems to be broken and riders are being encouraged to report any suspicions they have about others. If that continues then hopefully the Tour will be cleaned up.