Poolguy

Well... I would like to welcome you to the industry and wish you every success in your endeavours. Can you tell me exactly what the consultant at the Chambre de Metier advised you to register as....? I am not aware that there is a category for pool maintenance; certainly there is not a Piscinist or anything so specific to my knowledge. As for decennial, he is talking complete rubbish and trying to be Officious as it neither necessary for you nor available to you - at any price. We have just dealt with this topic on another forum and it is sure that if there is more than 20% of your turnover is derived from swimming pool business then there is not an insurer in France who will offer you any insurance any more - its been like that for nearly 10 years. Contact me if you want specific help in organising your business.   Andrew

If the Abri complies with the norm NF P90 309 then it is compliant when it is on. When it’s open you should have a responsible adult surveying the pool. If you have an alarm as well then you are double sure - a good idea but not obligatory according to the Norm.   Andrew

Yes I thinks so P.... (wrong side of the bed thing) Have a coffee chill for a bit, we can't be everywhere and all things to all men all the time. On occasions like Jim's problem, its fine to offer a diagnositc advice line.... not everything is chargeable. Jim bit more info and perhaps a pic of layout. I suspect that the pump will be sucking air rather than water ( did you check that the cover to the prefilter is back on properly) Andrew

I agree with Chris. Well water in a pool is a definite NO No Never. It’s not from a biological point of view although there are nitrates and phosphates problems, which can arise especially if you are in a rural area with intensive farm practices. I would say that by far the most damming factor for the practice is that ground water brings along with it mineral deposits from the surrounding country, some of which will play havoc with your chemistry. If there is a lot of Ferrous Oxide for example then you'll find little brown/black spots appearing on the liner or the surface of your pool. You can seem to clean them off and they are definitely getting bigger says you. If you have excessive copper the same problem and the same again with all the other heavy metals. Getting a water test from a lab is not enough... its only a 100ml sample and might not tell the whole story for the 80,000+litres you harvest. Don't think that it’s a saving to use this water in your pool because it isn’t... its more costly by a long way and everyone who has done it regrets it eventually. Use the tap! Andrew    

[quote user="buckdendave"] Poolguy You already know.  1.  You can go and buy suitable sand almost anywhere very inexpensively (even the sheds have it), whereas zeolite is in somewhat more restricted supply.  2.  With zeolite you have to be a little more careful about what else you throw into the pool. I have to admit that I haven't tried it, but will be very tempted to do so when the time comes. Dave  [/quote] Well far from being draw backs Dave, I see both f those points you made as being benefits of the product. I suspect you are being provocative without cause. Zeolite is widely available in the rest of the world and as France catches up it will be here too soon. In the Pool Spa Expo in Lyon in November I expect to one of 7 Companies exposing Zeolite products. The fact that the Brico's don't yet sell it speaks for itself. I have long pronounced the virtues of 'being careful what you throw in your pool', and will continue to do so in the hope that the standard of swimming pool water quality in France can be raised from the current level which is well below the World standard. I blame the persistent gaulish resignation to 'barely enough' which would be described in Oz as 'she'll be rite mate'. Well I want to make the point that it will not be right and it isn’t good enough to swim in a pool with poor water quality, its dangerous and unnecessary. Products like Zeolite with their cleansing properties are a serendipitous gift that should not be scoffed at out of ignorance or complacency. If you might accuse me of religious fervour then let be to the gods of clean, clear and Fresh water  - its preservation, its maintenance and enjoyment, I will do want I can to protect that ideal. QED Andrew

Rico I've sent you a PM Andrew

OK ... NOW I can offer something constructive. You have no chlorine in your water, which is strange as I presume that you have been dosing with something through the last weeks since you bought your pool. To remidie the problem, you need to choc the pool with Chlor Choc (chlor rapid- acid trichlorocyanurate), about 3 kg should be enough - then test. Following that you'll use a gallet of Chlor lent (slow chlorine- acid dichlorocyanurate) maybe one ever two weeks but test to determine the correct dose for your use. I would still be interested to know whats in the stuff you put in already Andrew

Julie It seems that you are not taking the adise you are given here seriously. If you want help then you need to post the levels in your water. chlor, pH total alkylinity, cyanuric acid; Nobody can possibly offer a solution to the problem without knowing whats happening. And chucking yet another solution of 'stuff' in the pool for no apparent reason dioes not help at all. Its adding to the problem more tahn solving anything. So please also post the chemical composition of your additive -Alkea shoch??? (never heard of it) Andrew  

I'll pick up on your teaser Dave Tell me what are the drawbacks of Zeolite??   Andrew

correct   A+

Quite right John   ....Point well made. We are both trying to help. I too do not want to contradict you, but wish to add my preference. Andrew

[quote user="UlsterRugby1999"] With all this weird weather my chems are all over the show. Cl = 1.8 Ph = 7.7 Alk = 211 Main issue here is the TA reading. I guess this must be caused by all the damn rain. Its normally spot on. So the queation is - what is the right and easiest product to reduce it and where to get it. I'm going into Limoges on Saturday if anyone knows a decent store there. Any suggestion gratefully appreciated. Cheers in advance. Paul [/quote]   In my opinin the TA is Fine as it is withint the 80 -300 range prefered by the Pure Wate Principle theory on water quality. I usuall prefer to keep it around the 150 range but yours is OK In most cases it is necessary to raise it when it gets below 80ppm, the cause of this is usally the use of Liquid acid and dry acid to balance the pH, as each dose has an effect on the TA. The usual symptom of that is to expereince pH bounce, where the pH is cycling all over the place from acid to alkalie in what seems to be hours for not apparant reason. The figues you give indicate that there is nothing to be alarmed about just drop your pH to 7.3 with dry acid (Sodium bisulphate) or if you prefer wet acids, its the same. Hope that this is helpful to you.   Andrew  

I prefer 30-50ppm range.   After that the molicule is too heavy and cannat act causeing 'Chlor lock' Very important to keep a check on it with an accurate tester.   Andrew

The correct range for isocyanuric acid (stabiliser) in a pool water is 30-50ppm above that you will start to experience 'chlorine lock' whereas the chlorine may be at normal or even high levels but It cannot apply its effect on contaminants due to the Higher level of Cyanuric acid. Above about 150ppm then you virtually have no chlorineation at all. Curiously, a similar effect can be shown below 10ppm as the effect of Cyanuric actually enhanced the presents of chlorine in the water, by making the molicules heavier. This also helps to spread the chlorine evenly thoughout the pool. So too little Cyanuric and the the more chlor you add it seems to leave just as quick. I concur with Chris, empty half your pool and refill, but do that twice:- 150ppm /2 = 75ppm, 75/2 is 32.5ppm, I presume that you  are going to continue to dose with Acid Dichlorocynurate so you need som more room for the next round of gallets. Alternatively you could change your water with a tarpoulin over the old water with a siphon  and add the new water above - that could be too much science however. Andrew

Osie Thanks for the question. I recommend that circulation time is based on the capacity of your pump and filter/volume in the Pool. I mean by that - you should filter ALL the water in the pool twice per day. That means that the whole volume of your pool should pass through the filter at least 2 times in a day.  These are the same recommendations from the Department of health for 'public pools'. As your pool is for public use you should pay attention to this directive.  Another example Calculating the circulation time (CT) is the debit (capacity) of the pump - say 22meters3:hour divided by the pool volume say 75m3 that would make 3.4 hours (CT) X 2 = 7 hours. Now if you CT is 5 hours then that would mean that the pump should run for 10 hours. In my opinion is really nothing to do with temperature (greatest respect to my Colleague) as everyone’s pool has not the same ratio of equipment to volume. How much chlorine to dose is a matter of testing to see the correct levels which will vary depending on: bather load, temperature of the water, exposure sunlight; concentration of stabiliser, filtration rate, oxygen content of the water, covered or not, season of the year, level of contaminants, distance of the filter to the pool, type of filtration, 'freshness' of the chlorine, pH, total alkalinity, and a few other minor issues. So test with a good photometric tester (I recommend Scuba+) and dose accordingly, then test again in a few days later to check. If you choose Zeolite in your filter then do not use any product with Flocculent. There are é reasons, you already have the best filtration on the market so you do not need a plasiticiser (floc) in the water to help and second it will block the pours of the Zeolite, which will limit the life of the product. I hope that this has been of help Andrew  

A bit yes   But if it keeps happening then you have dislodged the top rose in the filter. Andrew

Do  not use straight Javel directly on your liners as it will remove the protective varnish and damage the PVC I recommend a biodegradable cleaner call Aqua Clean., its good for the balck fungus and most of the stains,but it doesnt do suncream deposits. Andrew

It depends on how much is appearing in the pool   Andrew

You should also know that typically the filtration and circulation in these above ground pool packages is wholly inadequalte to keep a clean and sanitary pool even more so one whihc is heated. If you wish to avoid this problem in future then you might consider upgrading your technique locale or at least the addition of Zeolite in the filter. Andrew

Tayops Thank you for your clarification. For I would feel particularly aggrieved should you feel that we who work extremely hard, long hours for our business, our customers and also provide this place for advice gratis are in any way want of such avarice. I too am not at all happy with the 100% rise in the price of fuel in the last 18 months, certainly an unjustifiable position. Similar to the 55% rise in the price of bread in the last 6 months, and 62% rise in the price of milk in the same period. The big producers whose Keynesian management practices are taking unfair advantage of the buying public are controlling the world economy. As far as the pool industry is concerned, these forces have had their effect and there are some products, which are unreasonably expensive (peroxide for example). But the cost of doing business are also high -so far as yet I have no customers in my own village, but rather most are between 1 hour and 12 hours drive away. I too am at the mercy of the out of control cost of living and as such we  'make a living' but no more than that. I would hope that you would allow us that with some grace. Is conceivable that your comments were a 'knee jerk' and not meant to be either directed or hurtful to those of us in this position, but I (for one) regret the inferences, as they do not allow us to escape without the same tarring as the 'Agents' you accuse of unfair profiteering. If you have un understanding of Economics then you will appreciate that market forces will balance out any monopolistic style, or price fixing trends as they always do in an unregulated economies so your complaint as a consumer should be balanced amongst what else goes on in this world. Any consumer can for example buy a swimming pool for €15k, and they can also buy the same size swimming pool €45k. The difference is in the quality, the functionality, the backup service, and the longevity. What is disturbing to me is the view by many consumers that the former should also conform to the same performance as the latter. Logic and common sense would present the view that it does not but there is not a lot of that about it seems. Another example A Hyundai 4X4 cost €20k and a Porsche Cayenne 4X4 cost €150k they do the same job but would you also criticize the Porsche importer for the 7 fold difference. Suffice it to say that its not that I seek the last word but there are outstanding issues contained in the matter that I wished to exercise. You have signed off from this issue not wanting to enflame the debate which is wise, but as you have undoubted knowledge about the pool business and the world market generally perhaps you would consider also contributing your experience in a positive way providing direction and alternatives to pool owners who then have the most of all possible choices. We will all benefit from that, but they will not arrive if any of us continue to wax adversarial. It’s certainly not my style, and certainly not overly welcomed by the Forum community, I suspect. A comment without prejudice,   Andrew    

I can help you with that kit.   I have sent you an email.   Andrew

You all know my thoughts on Salt Chlorinators so I will not repeat that here to cloud the discussion. I wanted to add another issue to the list which the P's wrote ( the majority of which I agree with) is that if you purchase any product over the net from another county then you will also have bought: absolutely no consumer protection (you do not know what you are buying) no warrantee ( despite what the brochure claims) no backup service, and you are likely to end up spending more money than you saved if you need the unit fixed in France ( should there be a fault) Not to mention that if you do not support local companies then you will not have any local companies to help when you need it. If you think that the price for pool products is high in France then take up the issue with Messers Sarkozy et al as it is they that have caused it. Our margins are modest and we work very hard for our salary, as you can see from other Pool professionals who have responded. Andrew

If you send me pics of your system then I can advise you properly. At this point is not possible to proffer any helpful response. Send the pics to my email address.   You can put chlorine in your pool without circulation but be sure to dilute it first in a bucket...... use Eau de Javel 9.6% about 3 litres. That should control the algea till you get the pump ready to go again. You should also change the sand in the filter I suggest you use Zeolite as you do not know when it was last changed. Also you will need a tester to tell you what is happening with the complete water chemistry, I suggest a Scuba+ After that you need to balance the pH and the Stabilser and Total alkalinity. If these are not correct then I can tell you what to do about it. If you go down the road of buying everything which is offered to you in the Brico for a pool the you will spend a lot of money and get not very far along the learning curve. Alternatively you could find your answers here and follow the advise given. Hope that I can help.   Andrew  

Alison   I have sent you an email about the Evacuated tube solar system for your pool. Its the best solution all around as you have the best insulated cover already and you have the south facing roof on your pergola to mount the panels. All you will need in addition is to install a bypass in the pumproom to take the heat exchanger and the pressure circut. After that's in itsvertaully free as the circulation pump uses next to nothing, in electricity. further info available on my website...   Andrew

Please send me your contact details via PM and I'll put oyu in touch with some installers.   Andrew