Rabbie

[quote user="Harnser"][quote user="lindal1000"]But you still haven't addressed how you would identify people who are threats to national security in a reliable way. It has nothing to do with moral courage. There is nothing moral about victimising families and friends of people that one imagines to be terrorists. But then you knew that anyway..isn't this just what the terrorists themselves do?[/quote] "There is nothing moral about victimising families and friends of people that one imagines to be terrorists" There is no "imagine" about it. Did the poor priest "imagine" that he was going to be executed that morning? Did the happy revellers in the Bataclan "imagine" that they were going to be blown up and killed that day? My advice to you is to stop making excuses for the actual behaviour of these psychotic lunatics and start getting your mind right. When you abandon your socialist mind-set and get your mind right you will see that what I have written is the only solution.[/quote] Although I am not a socialist I would disagree that you have the only solution. A possible solution perhaps but one that could have unintended consequences. I believe in the rule of law and that people are innocent until proved guilty. This has been a basic principle of British law for centuries  and I believe it should not be sacrificed because of terrorists. That would be letting them win as well as betraying all those who gave their lives to defend our liberties in both world wars.

I can confirm this by personal observation of swallows nesting at our property. There has been the odd case of three broods but that is rare

Remember the ECHR was originally proposed by Winston Churchill to encourage the rule of law in postwar Europe. Don't be too quick to abolish our safeguards. You never know when you might need them. There are too many extremist politicians around to ignore the risk

I wonder how many of those stuck in the queues voted for tighter immigration controls

Perhaps you could ask at your nearest French Embassy if you are not living in France at present. I think there are different rules if one of your parents is French.

[quote user="alittlebitfrench"] If I was on the M20 I would turn back and go home. [/quote] I read that a lot of people did not have the option to turn back. Once they were in the queue there was no way to turn back.

[quote user="Chancer"]I think I know what IAAF means but what the **** does Cas, ROC, ROG, & RA mean?[/quote]I think this is the explanation you wanted. CAS   Court of Arbitration for Sport ROC   Russian Olympic Committee ROG   Rio Olympic Games RA      Russian Athletes

An Article 50 application can only be put in by the country wishing to leave. In the case of the UK this can be done either by a vote in Parliament or by the Government using the Crown Prerogative. There has been talk in the press of a legal challenge if the royal prerogative is used

Andy, thank you for your correction re Double Taxation treaties.

[quote user="NormanH"]1) I agree on the danger of LePen becoming President. 2) Surely all the countries that have had a  trade deals with the EU will have to negotiate one separately with the UK to replace it. Yet a few of them saying that they are thinking of this  is being presented as something special. Why? [/quote]With regard to Point 2 I suspect that these countries think they can negotiate an advantageous deal with the UK given that there is a shortage of experienced Trade negotiators in the UK and the general lack of preparation for a Brexit. They will hope that the UK is desparate to do deals. We must remember that there is much more than trade agreements to be  arranged. There needs to be work done in putting reciprocal healthcare agreements in place and also double tax agreements etc

Remember that the UK cannot sign any independent trade agreements until it actually leaves the EU. It seems that there is now increased support for staying in the EU in some other countries such as Denmark after the Brexit vote where support has gone up by nearly 10% so it may be a bit soon to write off the EU. Time will tell

The UK system of government works best when there is a credible opposition which unfortunately under Corbyn Labour isn't. Until Labour has an electable leader it just gives the government a free run. Now that we have the Brexit vote is more important than ever that the government is kept up to the mark to make sure the negotiations are carried out as effectively as possible

This BBC report suggest it may not be a full blown coup. Time will tell

Talking to friends in Scotland across the political spectrum, the consensus is that Nicola Sturgeon won't call another indyref unless she is sure to win it. At the moment opinion polls are giving her a narrow lead on that front but not enough for her to chance it. I suspect that after her meeting with Theresa May she will wait until the final deal is becoming clear and make her decision on the mood in Scotland then.

I became a registered supporter of the Labour party after the last election so I could vote for a leader who could oppose the Government in a positive way. Unfortunately instead Corbyn was elected. I decided to give him a chance but he has not shown he is up to the job in the House of Commons. I have no doubt that he is a decent honest man but he unfortunately for the country is not a leader. Leaders need followers and JC does not inspire his troops in Parliament. His previous track record of voting against his own party does not seem to have been conducive to inspiring loyalty. Although he expressed support for the Remain campaign in the referendum his refusal to give one of his colleagues assurance that he had voted that way raises doubts about his sincerity. I will not be voting for him in the next leadership vote as I believe it is essential that the Leader of the Opposition has the support of at least 25% of his own party MPs

[quote user="ebaynut"]How strange that those who appear to hate the UK and its people the most are all remainians and voted for us in the UK to suffer further by staying in the EU, well hooray, its not happening, we are leaving, thank you Nigel, we really would never have achieved this without your wonderful contributions.   Great selection from Mrs May, don't you all think, such a promising future awaits us, I expect you will all be looking forward, as I am to this   Great new signature Chancer, spot on as far as I am concerned, I do prefer mine though, but I guess others may not.  [;-)]      [/quote]Despite promising myself I would not rise to the bait I cannot prevent myself from replying. One of the most irritating things in the referendum campaign was the Leave side trying to claim they had a monopoly of patriotism and claiming that to stay in was an insult to our dead servicemen. There was a very moving letter in the Telegraph from a Battle of Britain veteran who said that he was voting to remain because of the contribution he felt the EU had made to European peace so there are two sides to every argument. Many of us who voted to remain did so because we felt it was in the best interests of the UK as a whole. Just because we have different views on what is best does not mean that either of us is unpatriotic. I have had several requests about the excessive use of capital letters in posts. This is seen as the equivalent of shouting and makes things harder to read for some people. Bearing this in mind Could you please consider changing your signature to Normal case.

Despite what Gove said I know that if I am ill or need an operation I will certainly want to be treated by an expert rather than some random person. I expect everyone else feels the same.

Since I asked the question and there has been no response to date from those who favoured Brexit my own views are that the UK should delay the formal application until they know what can be achieved and what would be acceptable to the majority of the British people. The success of negotiating a deal is to be clear in your own mind as to what you want and what you can concede. It now seems clear that access to the free market will be linked to the free movement of workers so that may prove tricky. A Norwegian type deal would leave us with a similar situation to the present but with no influence on future rule changes and a possible loss of some or all of the current rebate. I do not think either the Remainers or Leavers would be too happy with that  solution. A clear stumbling block to the EU making major concessions is that while 45% of UK exports are to the rest of the  EU only 7% of their exports are to the UK. This would suggest that we are not in the strongest position in that area. Negotiations are going to be hard since any conclusion needs to be approved not only by the remaining 27 EU members and the UK parliament but also by the EU Commission, The Council of Ministers and the European parliament. Now lets be hearing from those Leavers who have thought about the consequences of their vote

James Arden-Butters

Idun, I certainly don't think you are stupid or misled so I would be interested to know what you think the UK should do now that we are going to leave. Up till now there has been a lack of information as to what Brexit wants to achieve so your contribution would be helpful.

Now we know who the next Prime Minister is. IMO she was the best of the candidates and the most likely to get the UK a good deal. I wish her well. I am a little disappointed that the decision to invoke Article 50 will be done using the Royal Perogative rather than by a democratic vote in Parliament. It seems a little ironic that a decision taken on the basis of restoring the sovereignty of Parliament should be authorised in this way. Yet another example of Brexit saying one thing and not meaning it. It would be interesting to hear what sort of deal people here would like to see and what sort of deal they e pet we will get

Last night I watched a program recorded earlier about the reasons people had voted for Brexit. Time and time again they came back to EU immigration as their main reason. This did not seem to be racially motivated but more triggered by a lack of infrastructure resources in their area - housing, school places and jobs being the items most often highlighted coupled with a feeling that Government ignored them. Now that we have taken the decision to leave it seems essential to me that more money is spent on these relatively deprived areas and less on tax breaks for the very rich if we want to avoid social disharmony. The decision has been taken and in order to make the best of it we need to close the divides in our country and move forward together. We need to be properly prepared for the tough negotiations ahead in order to get the best possible deal. We need to have policies that a majority of people can support and ot those favoured by the extremists on either edge of the political spectrum

Remember that before we joined the EU the duty free allowance was 1 .litre spirits and 2 litres wine and 200 cigarettes. It was EU rules that allowed us to buy much larger quantities for personal use at local tax rates. Until we know what deal is negotiated it is impossible to say what will happen.

The availability of Editing toolbars seems to be dependent on which Browser and Operating system is being used. Past experience suggests to me that there will not be any major update of the forum software and given what happened to another forum when they updated perhaps we should be grateful for that.

[quote user="mint"][quote user="Loiseau"]Look folks, there was never any PROMISE made that the £350 million a week would go to the NHS. The actual words on the battle bus were: "Let's fund our NHS instead." No commitment, no promises... Angela[/quote] And Boris et al were very careful to use words like "would", "could", "might" etc and say things like the money saved could be put into the NHS "for example". Really, people SHOULD (there you are, another of those words!) read and listen more carefully; no good crying over spilt milk; [/quote]If I said to Mrs Rabbie "Lets not spend £50 per month on our gym subscription, lets spend it on going out to lunch once a month" she would take that to mean I thought we should cancel the gym and go out for lunch instead each month. So I am not surprised if people less sophisticated than Loiseau and Mint thought that was what Boris et al were going to spend the money on the NHS. There is certainly enough evidence on social media to give credence to that view. This does not mean that they were morons or stupid. Just people who thought we should spend more on our NHS. Idun, I respect your sincere and  frequently expressed view we should leave the EU. Indeed I thought you actually made a better case for Brexit than the Leave campaign. However my own view is that since no coherent plan for how we should handle the exit has been unveiled then to vote for Brexit was voting for an unknown. In my business experience the success of any negotiations depends 80% on preparation and 20% on execution. This means that we need someone in control who has a clear idea of what needs to be agreed. Although I  differ from her political views I feel the only candidate for the Tory leadership with the necessary qualities and experience is Mrs May and I wish her well. We need a Prime Minister who can unite the country and heal the divisions that this referendum has opened up. Finally, lets remember the Great in Great Britain does not refer to our power/status but is a translation of Grande Bretagne as opposed to Bretagne(Brittany). Nostalgic looking back to a golden past will not help us to survive in today's world.