Percentage Reduction on Asking Price

[Grecian]

I know there will be no definitive answer to this query, but can people please share their experiences, regarding their offers for properties they have purchased in France.

We have found a property, which we have made an offer on, a 30-year-old sous-sol, not the average restoration job most Brits go for I know, but we want something we can move straight into, within reason.

The property is mostly in excellent condition, but the oil-fired boiler is original, i.e. 30 years old, whilst it must have been maintained throughout the 30 years, as it was very warm when we viewed the property, it will obviously have to be replaced at sometime in the future. On this basis we made an offer knocking 11% off the combined asking price and notaire fees. The owners have rejected the offer, but have come back with an offer of 7% off, which includes the notaire fees.

With the French housing market, it would seem on the face of it slowing, we are not sure if 7% represents a good deal. Any comments would be most appreciated.

 

[timc17]

Are you trying to bag a bargain for a profit or buy a house that you might keep for many years?

A difference of 4% does not seem very much so if you're happy with the house do the deal if not keep looking.

[ams]

Generally we offer at least 25% to 20% lower than the asking price, and then start negotiating from that point.  The minimum reduction that we obtained was 15%.

 

However you have started with an 11% reduction so the response that you received of a reduction of 7% is quite a normal response.

 

ams

[Pierre ZFP]

Make a counter offer to split the difference at 9%  ?

 

[Grecian]

Many thanks for the replies.

By what you have posted ams, looks like we have gone in too high to begin with. [:@]

timc17, This will be our home, not a holiday escape or investment property, so as you say if we are happy with it, go for it.

Pierre, I think your suggestion seems pretty sensible to me, I will be making a revised offer of 9% less than the asking price.

 

[Gastines]

Interesting note regarding house sales in France in FranceOuest today. Sales down countrywide by 27.9%. Normandie -21%. Pays de Loire -19.2% but Bretagne only -8.5%. Judging by the amount of new house builds going on in nearly all local communes,I'd say this area isn't suffering too much.We have a building plot for sale and over the last few days have had 7viewings and 2 offers, so it obviously depends on which area you are in. Still holding out for a few more euros though!!

Regards.

[Will]

When you hear of offers of 30-40% below the asking price being accepted all that means is that the price was way over the top to start with. Reputable/knowledgeable agents, and sensible sellers who actually want a sale rather than a vague possibility of a quick buck, will set the asking price at something close to what can actually be achieved in the current market.

You can compare the place you want with others on the market, but that doesn't tell you a lot because the others might be overpriced too. Unfortunately there is nothing in France like the databases which allow you to look up actual selling prices - all France has is the FNAIM and notaires' market statistics like those quoted above. One thing that's fairly certain though is that if 'your' house has been for sale for a long time, then the asking price is probably way too high.

[ams]

Your price offer could be spot on. I prefer to go in low and work upwards, so many people that we know have had their first offer accepted.

 

before going back with a counter offer i would let the matter rest for a week or two.

 

ams

[Nearly Retired (I am now)]

Yup !

We bought ours nearly 4 years ago I think. We offered 8% less as starters and within 48 hours the 3 family owners (inheritors) each living in a different part of France managed to get together and accept it.

I don't think I have regrets, but sometimes wonder how low we could have got away with.

If there's ever a next time we'll be more careful.

[timc17]

[quote user="ams"]

Your price offer could be spot on. I prefer to go in low and work upwards, so many people that we know have had their first offer accepted.

 

before going back with a counter offer i would let the matter rest for a week or two.

 

ams

[/quote]

Would you use the same tactics in the UK or is your magical formula strictly for the French market?

[Nicos]

Remember- if you offer lower than the asking price then someone else can come in and secure the sale by offering the asking price!

Is it that house you are after - or a bargain??? ( more likely a bit of both????)

[ams]

What a very strange question to ask.

 

Did you pay the asking price when you bought. ?

 

Did you overpay ?

 

Why would i know anything about the UK property market. ?

 

Of course you could use the services of a property finding company and ensure that the price you end up paying is substantially more than it should be. !!!!!

 

 

ams

[timc17]

[quote user="ams"]

What a very strange question to ask.

 

Did you pay the asking price when you bought. ?

 

Did you overpay ?

 

Why would i know anything about the UK property market. ?

 

Of course you could use the services of a property finding company and ensure that the price you end up paying is substantially more than it should be. !!!!!

 

 

ams

[/quote]

We bought in December and paid the full asking price.

No we don't think we overpaid and our architect agrees.

Your previous comments led me to believe you always offer 20 - 25% less than the asking price, i was just curious as to whether this technique only applied to buying in France or could be used anywhere. 

[ams]

Your property finding company indicated that you bought in 2005, so i assume that you first bought in december 2005. I find that people that you are employing tend to agree with one rather than disagree.

 

When looking at a property in France to purchase a number of factors influence the price. some of them are as follows,

 

1. The area concerned.

2. How long the property has been on the market.

3. Current market demand.

4. The seller, is it urgent, a liquidation sale, reposession, need of a quick sale etc.

5. The general condition of the market, hot cold etc.

6. The price of similar properties in the locality.

7. Is the property to be sold privately, through an agent etc.

8. Is the property less than 5 years old or more than, 5 years old.

 

In many cases the estate agent can add between 5% to 9% to the asking price, going direct to the owner immediatey eliminates that huge fee. if one uses the services of a property finding company, then one adds at least another 1% to the cost. When talking to french people they have always indicated that they never pay the asking price. apparently it is a french sellers dream to have a foreigner buy their house, a bit like winning the lotto.

 

ams

[P-D de Rouffignac]

Replying to "ams" - Why do your suggest that a property finder (I am one) would result in a buyer paying more for the property? If you watch the current French TV series on M6 regarding property searchers and house doctoring (preceeding a sale), the hardest job the presenter (who is an estate agent of 20 years standing) has is persuading owners/sellers that their property is overpriced. In my experience this is frequently the case and part of the expertise we bring to the job is knowing current market values and advising accordingly.

For a lengthier article on this subject, I have a piece in the current (June) issue of 'French Property News' which examines the whole notion of property values, including market value, which may be of interest to Forum members.  

P-D de Rouffignac

www.francemediterraneanproperty.com

[Sunday Driver]

Where does all that stuff about timc17 using a property finder come from?  I'm sure he said it was his architect had agreed with him.... [8-)]

 

[breizh]

We have always paid the asking price. As far as we are concerned a property is worth what we are willing to pay for it. Going back to the OP, if you want the house don't get hung up about if you got a bargain. Look at it this way, if there is a big discount that means no one else is interested in buying, do want something nobody else wants? I am curious about French people telling you that foreigners overpay for property, my wife is french, with 8 sisters, living in a big Brit area, they always say they won't sell to the British because they always argue about the price, and then pull out before signing the CdV. They much prefer French buyers, no timewasters.

[timc17]

Just to put the record straight for ams who has jumped to several wrong conclusions.

1. Our current French house was bought in 2003 as a holiday home.

2. We moved here in 2005 and started our Property Finding / Maintenance business in July 2007.

3. In December 2007 we bought a second house here which requires renovation and will when refurbed double-up as a home and a B&B.

4. This second property was bought at the full asking price within hours of it being available as we knew there was significant interest in it and having been searching for the best part of a year did not want to lose it to someone else.

5. The architect's opinion that the property was undervalued is more a reflection of the availability of this particular type of house locally rather than sucking-up to a new client.

 

 

[breizh]

Agree with you on points 4 & 5. Local architects tend to be a bit more than makers of pretty doddles in France, they tend to know what they are talking about. Our last move was to a different Department, our architect applied for all the Permissions, and got us nearly 25% rebates d'Impots of which we weren't aware, paid for himself 10 times over. 

This thread has made me curious about something though, because in all the time I've lived here I can't remember a single conversation, initiated by a french person, about house prices. I rarely meet Brits, except through work, but it does seem from what I read here that they are somewhat obsessed by prices and market conditions! I've never known any of my family buy a house deuxieme occasion (!), they all build new, so maybe that is the reason they don't worry about the price of what they are buying. However, the french seem more obsessed about getting the best quality, price is not the main driver, maybe that is the reason. Anyway, I'm just musing, until the missus gets back from work, and I can ask her what she thinks.

[Acegundog]

[quote user="breizh"]This thread has made me curious about something though, because in all the time I've lived here I can't remember a single conversation, initiated by a french person, about house prices[/quote]

Just last week a neighbour (french) told that the house at the top of the hamlet is up for sale for 150,000 euro - he told us it was far far too expensive and only worth £100,000.  The owners are Parisians though and I think that has something to do with his opinion!

AGD

[breizh]

Mmmm, Parisians, only marginally less hated than the Germans in la France Profonde. I'm not sure my hamlet, (that's being generous, more like a lieu-dit) know the Euro has arrived, most of them still talk in old francs, never mind new francs.

[woolybananasbrother]

No, having just been through the selling/buying process, I would say there are loads of overprices places about and anyone who goes in with an offer of less than 20% below the asking price has to have a dam ned good reason for doing so. Particularly so as the market in manyt parts of France is in free fall.

 

[Gastines]

It's all a game of nerves. Yesterday we had another dopey offer on our plot.Offer refused.Today the offer was increased by 10000 euros.? Still refused!! We gave the Immo and Notaire a bottom line price AFTER discussing a fair price with them and taking their advice. Who is the buyer insulting their intelligence or ours? Perhaps they think"English, must be struggling with the euro/pound".

Regards.

[AnOther]

[quote user="breizh"]As far as we are concerned a property is worth what we are willing to pay for it.[/quote]Which ultimately is all any property (or anything come to that) is worth !

You cannot live your life in a constant state of 'what if' [:'(]

 

[mint]

Wooly B said,  

 "Particularly so as the market in manyt parts of France is in free fall."

 

Which parts of France are you talking about, Wooly?  Simply can't let you get away with remarks like that, unless you can substantiate them?

No sign, so far, of any freefall in CM.  In fact, I 'm a little surprised at how robust the market seems to be and also how active!