pagnol81 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 My lovely neighbour died and his relations put his house and sheds up for sale separately.We made an appointment to view the sheds and signed the piece of paper " lu et approuve" as normal. The price was way too high, we said no and forgot all about it. This all happened in May.At the weekend I was approached by one of the relatives to say they were taking the house and sheds away from the estate agent at the end of the month. The market is very quiet and I understand noone has been to see the house.They had heard we were interested in the sheds, and asked if we would like to discuss a price at some time.What I would like to know is if we buy direct from the relatives can the estate agent stil demand their fee from us?I feel I know the answer to this one but want to make sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 So, whats the best way forward?Approach the estate agent before the end of the month with our offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Or, what would the estate agents fees be? 2.5 or 3%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 It can be up to 7%, depending on the agent, but usually round 5/6%. Yes, go to the agent with the offer but first see if you can negotiate their fee down a bit. If they are not selling much they might do a deal. Then lower your offer by the amount of the agent's fee so you dont pay it on top. If the vendor is pushed, you could even lower your offer by the notaires fee as well. It all depends how anxious the vendor is to offload the barns.Make the agent work for the money though, do not do all the negotiating yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Thanks for that info.We are talking off two adjoining sheds, 4m x 3m, used to store bikes,garden furniture, tools etc. The walls, which have holes, are what remains of an old house and the roof is corrugated iron rusted through. There are no services and there isn't any land included, just the sheds. The asking price is 51,000 euros, the cost of a small house here.Until recently any property that came onto the market was snapped up on the first day or never made it to the estate agents window. We believe the vendors are being very greedy, a thought shared by our neighbours. Even offering half the price would be too much but we dont know the etiquette here. How low can you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Those prices sound way over the top for the current market, but I dont know your area. Go as low as you like. It is your money after all. Decide what the ruins are worth to you.You could put in a very low offer and just wait. If they are selling them off they may be chancing it or may need the dosh. Don't rush it though.Sounds as they are worth zilch to me. Trouble is, some people believe the myth of those rich Brits chucking huge sums around. Backed up by what they see of Tata trucks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Thanks for your help. You are right about the value. Prices have been high here for houses for a long time, but two falling down sheds!We will go to the agents and give it our best shot.Thanks again for your advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 You are considering buying a piece of dirt measuring 24 square metres (less than the size of my lounge) upon which there are some stones and a sheet of rusty metal. You can't even build a house on it.According to SAFER, the price of land in most of rural France is less than 4,000€ per hectare, so asking 51,000€ for 24 square metres seems a bit opportunistic to me.....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 [quote user="Sunday Driver"] You are considering buying a piece of dirt measuring 24 square metres (less than the size of my lounge) upon which there are some stones so asking 51,000€ for 24 square metres seems a bit opportunistic to me.....[;-)[/quote]Ah but the potential vendor is English and therefore viewed as a pigeon.Sadly there is no smoke without fire, someone somewhere will have recounted just how much an English pigeon has in the past paid for a pile of rubble, in my area this preconception is all but impossible to shrug, the best negotiating in the world would only secure a face saving 5% reduction from the asking price whether it be €51K for a pile of stones or a devi to refelt and replace existing tiles on a small roof.P.S.Re the agents commission, again speaking from my area, it is likely to be 8% or more for a property of that (relatively) low value, offering less is likely to increase the commission, they have an invers sliding scale in my area that has to be seen to be believed.Also you should remember that all notaires fees increase as a % with the decrease in property value.Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Ah but the potential vendor is English and therefore viewed as a pigeon.Sadly there is no smoke without fire, someone somewhere will have recounted just how much an English pigeon has in the past paid for a pile of rubble, in my area this preconception is all but impossible to shrug, the best negotiating in the world would only secure a face saving 5% reduction from the asking price whether it be €51K for a pile of stones or a devi to refelt and replace existing tiles on a small roof.P.S.Re the agents commission, again speaking from my area, it is likely to be 8% or more for a property of that (relatively) low value, offering less is likely to increase the commission, they have an invers sliding scale in my area that has to be seen to be believed.Also you should remember that all notaires fees increase as a % with the decrease in property value.Good luckRead this and learn, oh fluffy ones. Remember, they all want your money by hook or by crook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 [quote user="pagnol81"]At the weekend I was approached by one of the relatives to say they were taking the house and sheds away from the estate agent at the end of the month. They had heard we were interested in the sheds, and asked if we would like to discuss a price at some time.[/quote]If I were in your situation I would wait until the relatives have cancelled their contract with said estate agent and then I would make an appropriate* offer directly to the relatives.* having relevance to the size and location of the plot and also taking into account how much the plot is worth to you.Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 If you have already viewed with the agent, you will be stuick with their commission, crime though this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil & Pat Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 [quote user="pagnol81"]Prices have been high here for houses for a long time, but two falling down sheds! [/quote]Can you wait for a year or so until the vendors need to pay for them to be demolished, then 'help them out' with a reasonable offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Hi Sunday DriverWe are in a small village in a conservation area. These two sheds/ruins are 10 metres from us opposite a public pathway. Many of the small fisherman cottages around us have no outside space. We have a small garden but not much storage so they are very desirable.A local Frenchman is interested and we met him as we viewed at the same time. He too was incredulous of the price asked.Not only do we want the storage but we would like control of this area because of its proximity.The agent is also saying that the land is "constructive", possible to apply to build a small studio she suggested. Its actually about 28m squared, but access is difficult. Adjacent to a pathway on a slope there are 54 steps to the top and a very narrow access to the street. All building materials would have to come by this route.Our lovely neighbour who died had made enquiries to build there and said it was a small fortune, let alone obtaining permission in a conservation area.Before our neighbour's mother approached us at the weekend we were biding our time as nothing is selling here. At one point it was almost impossible to find a house for sale and now the market is dead.Having signed a bon de visite I believe we must talk to the agent and first find out what fees they are looking for.Our offer would be based on what we know our neighbour paid for the sheds many years ago in French Francs. Wish us luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the InfoGipsy Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 [quote user="pagnol81"]Our offer would be based on what we know our neighbour paid for the sheds many years ago in French Francs. [/quote]And once you've cracked this one you could buy Manhattan for a handful of beads.[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiling a frog Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I was going to say that I was amazed at the comments re prices but on reflection it is just common English greed.Boast about how much they got for their house in England (we made a 500% profit in only three years) and then complain about the French ripping them off ( we only paid 10,000€ 3 years ago and now they are wanting 12,000€ for the same ,just see us english as having loads of money [:@]) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 With all due respects, I think it is what the buildings are worth to you that counts, rather than an outdated price in an obsolete currency. Despite the impression given on most forums like this agents in France are mostly decent and straightforward people rather than just charlatans who are only interested in grabbing the money and running. I may be biased, being married to one, but I know that Judie is not alone. They have to live in small communities where reputation counts for a lot.Please talk to the agent - i.e. preferably a person who actually works for the agency in a responsible position, not just a commission-only self employed sales agent. He/she is the person best placed to know whether the vendor is likely to accept an offer, or is holding out for a totally unrealistic price. And what sort of offer is both realistic and likely to prove acceptable. If the agent knows you are being honest with him, and have no wish to cut him out of any deal, then he will be straight with you. Remember that unlike in England it's you who pays the agent, so the agent will need to keep you on his side to achieve a sale, and have your interests in mind as well as his own. Then, when you have an idea of a sensible figure, you can offer a bit below that to get negotiations under way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagnol81 Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 The vendors are French. The agent made it clear that it was they who set the price for both house and sheds. There are 3 inhertitors and I know one has been barred from having a bank account for ten years now. I don't think the prices are just aimed at the English. There are many wealthy Parisians locally, and there are Dutch and Belgians also. When I referred to the price paid in French Francs and the time they were purchased I meant we had a basis to work out a realistic price, years passed, inflation etc.We are trying to establish a fair price, not to make silly offers. As Will has suggested we will be talking to the agent but as they are losing the properties at the end of the month there may not be much interest on their part to help us. After that we will be stuffed if we agree a price with the relatives as the agent will come after us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 If the agent is no longer mandated to sell the sheds after the end of the month then any case for claiming a fee from you will be considerably weakened. And bearing in mind the high cost and aggravation of legal action, most agents will not bother unless a very large fee is under dispute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJSLIV Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 After that we will be stuffed if we agree a price with the relatives as the agent will come after usNot necessarily. The obligation to pay the commission as a result of signing the bon de visite is for fixed period, which is stated on the document .Do you have a copy?They usually expire after a maximum of 12 or 15 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody234 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 isnt the somme, picardie in north east france, not siant-tropez, thats where you pay 51000 for 2 sheds, i think the french sellers are taking advantage that you are a brit and they know you want the land more than anyone else, your best bet is to over them 5k euro and let them sweat, they will give in in 6 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callie Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Whilst the OP may really want the sheds, the price seems extortionate. It should also be borne in mind that the estate agent's fee would probably be the same percentage whether the property was 50,000 euros or 20,000 euros.What the OP should perhaps think about (and of course maybe he/she has !) : If you pay around 50,000 euros plus about 10-15% in fees, would you ever get your money back should you wish to sell ???As Woody says, this is the Somme and the price they are asking for a very small piece of ground with no utilities is what you might expect to pay in a town !As for the other interested party, do you really ilmagine a French person is going to pay that price ? If so, I'll eat my hat ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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