Help! - French death insurance

[hastobe]

We seem to have reached an impasse over our death insurance. The (French) insurance company are insisting that the doctor makes his report in French - they refuse to accept a report in English.  My doctor does not speak French and so will not / can not write the report in French.  Further he is not willing to sign a translation of the report as, again, he doesn't speak French and so would not be comfortable that the translation is accurate.  I can't have the report done by another doctor as it has to be prepared by the doctor who has been managing my condition.  Has anyone else had this problem?

If the worse comes to the worse and we have to pull out - does failure to be granted death insurance mean that we have not been offered a mortgage and can pull out without losing our deposit? We have a mortgage clause suspensive in the compromis.  

Although we have been offered a good interest rate in France, my one word of warning about taking out a French mortgage wouldn't be the fees - it's how grindingly slow and bureaucratic the banks in France are - it has taken us five months so far to try to sort out our mortgage with Banque Populaire and we are still struggling with the insurance.  In comparison, the UK part of our mortgage was sorted and the funds in our account in less than three weeks.

Kathie

 

[booboo]

not sure about the mortgage clause, i'm sure others will.

That's the problem with typically french banks; did you not try going through a french bank with a special english branch like credit agricole ? As the banks have their contracts with the insurance companies, i'm sure it would be ok in english with CA.

[hastobe]

We were under the impression that the English speaking CA was in Paris - which is a bit far from us.  Our contact at BP bank speaks good English so everything else has been ok - its just this stupid death insurance.  The best part is the condition they are querying is under-active thyroid - which is a simple straightforward condition, not life threatening and which has been well controlled for 12 years - I just take a little white tablet everyday - sorted!  MOH on the other hand is 10 years my senior and smokes - but they don't require a medical report for him at all!!

Kathie

[booboo]

mmm, it's a shame your BP bank contact can't help you then? Surely if he want's your file to go through, then he can pull his little finger out and get it sorted??

As far as CA goes, there are a few english branches, however britline and paris are the main ones. I only know the paris one, and they are good so far. Perhaps it might be worth the try doing a mortgage file elsewhere quickly? If you want to contact CA in paris, their main email is: [email protected] Afterall a weekend trip to paris is a good excuse for a shopping spree! best of luck for your mortgage.

[hastobe]

Thanks for the info!  But we are going to try and persevere with BP - we are only 12 days off our supposed signing date - and given how long its taken to get this far (and that the vendors want a quick sale) I think starting from scratch with another French bank is probably not feasible.  If it comes to it we may have to take out a UK mortgage - but with the additional 2.3% interest that would be expensive and so, if we can recover our deposit, we would probably withdraw altogether... and try Florida instead!!!

Kathie

[Baz]

As far as Life assurance is concerned the Insurance underwriters have to protect their company and to you what may appear to be minor ailment, is  to them a potential underwriting risk.  So from a medical report  they will want to be satisfied about the cause, the treatment and long term prognosis in order to set the premiums as well as details of any other ailments or illness  in your past medical history whether minor or not. There is no point believing you are covered only at a later stage to have a claim rejected due to non disclosure. Also it is not unreasonable to expect a French company  to only accept doctors reports in French.

 In the UK faced with a reverse situation,  assurance companies are often  prepared to alternatively accept  a fully medical examination   when a Doctors report cannot be obtained. I suggest you could approach your French company to see if they are prepared to accept a full medical examination instead of a Doctors report, but they may expect you to pay for the examination.

Baz

[hastobe]

It is not the fact that I have to have a medical report  - I have

no issue with that.  I was just pointing out the inconsistencies

in a system that required a medical report when you are taking any sort

of medication regularly (regardless of the reason) but accepted someone

for insurance without a medical when they were much older and a long

term smoker. 

I am already paying for the medical report prepared by my doctors -

GP's do not provide medical reports for free!  I have offered to

pay for a medical report prepared by a doctor of their choice but they

insist it has to be my doctor - as only he knows my medical history.

I have also offered to pay for the company to get my doctors english report translated.

The insurance company also had no knowledge of UK law regarding

disclosure of medical information and didn't ask for my consent and

wrote to me rather than my doctor - which is perhaps not their fault

but nevertheless has delayed things by a further three weeks.  My

GP has been asked for report in similar situations from other countries

- in the last twelve months from patients buying homes in Cyprus and in

Spain - but in both cases the insurance companies were happy with

reports in English.  I don't see what else I can do?

You say that it is reasonable for the insurance company to ask for

reports from family doctors in French - why?  Why should a family

doctor in another country speak French? I can't believe the insurance

company doen't have a translator.  Where I work we have a list of

employees who are fluent in more than one language and so we can offer

written or verbal translations/support in 30 languages.  We

consider this to be an important part of our customer service. 

This insurance company is 'big' - far bigger than our company - if we

can offer this - why can't they?

Oh - I forgot to add - the original letter from the insurance company

ave us a 40 day time limit to provide the imformation - threatening

that if we didn't provide the information in that timethey would close

our file and that they would notify our bank of our failure to

respond.  Which given they got the address completely wrong:-

wrong house name, wrong street, city 'Stockholm' instead of

Stoke-on-Trent!! and with only the first three letters of the post code

correct we were lucky to get the request at all!

Kathie

[KathyC]

I think that your GP is being difficult by refusing to sign a translation of his report. I am assuming that you are talking about a certified, sworn translation rather than something less formal? These sort of translations are accepted by government bodies, immigration service etc., and I can see no reason why he shouldn't accept this. You might have more success putting pressure on him rather than the insurance company. Good luck.

[RichardA]

Kathie,

Just to back up what Kathy said, you need an official, certified, translation. Your local mairie will have a list of approved translators. You send off your signed english doctor's report to the translator (it costs about 50 euros per document), then you get a official translation back a couple of weeks later with a great big stamp on it (the French like big stamps!), that is acceptable to all French banks/government offices etc.. Your english doctor does not need to sign the official translation.

Richard

[KathyC]

Richard

I agree with what you wrote, but Kathie had already said that she had offered to pay for the doctor's report to be translated into French and that this wasn't acceptable. That's why I suggested she approach it from the GP's end.

[BJSLIV]

I think the point is that she asked the Insurance company to arrange a transalation, which they refused to do. If she provides a certified translation then they will accept it.

We are talking about the French bureaucratic system, where it is (always) down to the customer to go the extra mile not the supplier!

 

[hastobe]

[quote user="KathyC"]I think that your GP is being difficult by refusing to sign a translation of his report. [/quote]

I think his problem is that he feels he is putting his name (professionally) to something he doesn't understand and so cannot vouch is correct - which I can empathise with.  I think he would rather sign a report in English, which he is comfortable conveys the correct information and then let someone else translate that.  That way any errors in translation (if any) are the responsibility of the translator not him.

Atm I am just hoping that sense will prevail and that the insurance company will agree to him writing his report in English and then us having the report translated and then sending both versions or paying for the insurance company to have the translation done.  Unfortunately, we are in the UK so it would be difficult to get a copy of approved translators from our Marie (which is tiny - the sort that opens for three hours every other Thursday [;-)]). 

Btw - thanks for all your input - I now have so much respect for those of you that run businesses inspite of all this red tape.  Just buying a house is driving me nuts!

Kathie 

[RichardA]

Kathie,

This needs to be an official translation for your bank to accept it. Paying for it to be translated by someone, however qualified, is not sufficient. If I'm correct, this is the subtle difference that is happening here.

Contact your bank to find if they have any restrictions on which official translators you need. If you're in the UK then the French embassy/consulate should be able to supply you with the details of an approved translator. Your doctor should not need to sign the French form. It will be stamped and notarised by the official translator.

It is not for your bank to translate the document, even if you pay them. It is your responsibility. You need the english document translated and notarised by an official translator, and then you send both these documents to your bank. Once you know the correct procedure, it's actually quite simple!

I had to get some documents translated last year when I got married in France. I did not need to have the translated documents in French re-signed by the relevant UK authority.

Richard

[hastobe]

[quote user="RichardA"]

This needs to be an official translation for your bank to accept it.

[/quote]

We presumed that would be the case - the irony is, their letter

detailing the information they require is in French - and I've

translated that for my doctor! But if we have to play French treasure hunt

then so be it......  Sheesh - I so wish I'd lied on that first set

of medical forms [;-)][Www]

Kathie

[Translator]

[quote user="RichardA"]

Kathie,

Just to back up what Kathy said, you need an official, certified, translation. Your local mairie will have a list of approved translators. You send off your signed english doctor's report to the translator (it costs about 50 euros per document), then you get a official translation back a couple of weeks later with a great big stamp on it (the French like big stamps!), that is acceptable to all French banks/government offices etc.. Your english doctor does not need to sign the official translation.

Richard

[/quote]

Richard is right that your doctor doesn't need to sign a sworn translator's translation. I know because I've been one for 13 years. It's the translator who takes all the legal responsibility if ever he or she makes a mistake. This is a terribly big responsibility that none take lightly and partly justify the cost (BTW most translators charge per word, not per document, so 50 euros would be an average for about a page of source text.) However Richard's off the mark about two things. The 2-week delay in turnaround time he mentions is extremely long and  I anyway, don't have a particularly big stamp.

[Iceni]

Switch on picky, picky mode

You cannot insure against death, it is one of only two certainties that WILL happen.

John

not

[hastobe]

Update - still not even managed to get the request for medical

information from the insurance company to my doctor.  They have

now sent it three times but it has not arrived at this end.  We

are on the point of giving up.  MOH is going to write to Banque

Populaire tomorrow to request that they change our mortgage application

to his name only and to borrow the difference in the UK.  (Btw BP

have been singularly useless in all of this - have not answered any

emails or taken any calls for the last 10 days - and it turns out -

they hadn't spoken to the insurance company as they said they

had!).  We also have the vendors threatening to sue us for the

cost of furniture storage so we are contacting them tonight to offer to

contribute to their costs.

The irony of it is - I'm probably a much safer bet than MOH - who works

for NHS (which is making staff redundant left right and centre) and is

ten years older than me.  But we have tried, my God we have tried,

to sort this out and are beaten.  It has gotten to the point whre

I am beginning to hate the house....

Kathie

[Translator]

Kathie,

instead of throwing in the towel, can't you get in your car and drive to the

insurance company to get the famous piece of paper needed and take it to your

doctor. I don't know the distances involved, but the drive might relieve some

of your obvious exasperation, and you can give the banker a piece of your mind

in person (s/he'll understand your mood even if you speak Chinese). My advice

is to stop writing and telephoning and go get what you need, even camping in

the bank hall until they give it to you. I know that they are all appallingly

slow approving loans, but why stay with Banque Populaire? Another possibility

could be to take an appointment with an independent financial advisor and let

him/her guide you towards several possible banks.

Cheer up - Peter

[hastobe]

Finally resolved the issue - in case anyone else is faced with same problem information is here

Kathie