Result of electrical search and signing compromis

[Ma Baggins]

I have just received the results of the house searches on the property we are buying along with the compromis to sign.

A french friend has looked at them and highlighted the issues they show but she knows nothing of electrical regulations and has not bought in france herself. (we are in england)

The searches have shown on the electrical search that there are some anomales which are then detailed the main ones of these are:-

there are several referance to there not being an earth

that there is no protection by a 30mA circuit breaker

and 'l'ensemble des socles de prise de courant n'est pas de type a obturateur. - unsure what this is

there are electrical items too close to the shower area of the bathroom (I am aware the water heater is at the end of the bath which the shower is over and there is a socket level with the back of the bidet)

The asbestos survey showed possible asbestos in the wall and post cement and the roof tiles did contain asbestos.

My querry is do we sign the compromis knowing this or do we ask for the electrical abnomalies to be rectified or can we reduce what we pay so we can sort these problems?

Not sure sure which way we go with the knowledge from these surveys.

I can supply the original french if this would help someone in advising us what we should do.

HELP. 

[Punch]

In brief there is no obligation on the house owner to repair or correct any of these abnomalies. You can of course use the report as a bargaining tool in getting a price reduction if you so wish. You could ask the owner if you can get some devis for the works in question to get an idea of what the likely cost is.

In answer to the electrical queries, the electrical diagnosis has become law this year in all house sales where the electrical installations are 15 years old or more.

The electrical inspections look at the 5 or 6 main security issues such as RCD protection, earthing, protective devices, and such like.

The sentence 'l'ensemble des socles de prise de courant n'est pas de type a obturateur' means that the socket outlets in the property do not have shutters in the holes to stop kids poking screwdrivers into them etc. The electrical regulations in bathrooms are quite specific and without going into great detail, socket outlets are not allowed within 60 cm of a fixed bath or shower.

Depending on the existing electrical installation, I often I find that it is a false economy paying out good money after bad to bring an old installation up to a passable standard, and a rewire is often the more viable option.

I hope this helps, please feel free to ask more questions!

www.punchardrenovation.com

[AnOther]

I agree with Punch.

To be honest it all sounds pretty typical of an older property and on the face of it suggests that it might well be in need of a complete rewire so you may have some room to renegotiate the price.

I wouldn't worry too much about the asbestos. It's very common to find it, in fact in older properties it would be more unusual to not find any, but generally it doesn't present a hazard if solid and left undisturbed. If there was anything of real and immediate concern the report would say so. Asbestos roof tiles in particular are very common and again should give no grounds for concern unless you plan to disturb them.

Ultimately only you can decide what to do about signing the compromis as is or not.

Good luck

[Chancer]

Please be aware that there is not the "get a survey, get some quotes and reduce the price accordingly" culture in France as in the UK, getting a surveyors reports is practically unheard of, the asbestos and termite reporting has been around for a long time but the compulsory electrical one is new.

There is no harm in trying o negotiate given the current market but trying to reduce the price so you can turn an old property into a new one (at least in the electrical sense) at the sellers expense is likely to be misconstrued.

Good luck.

[Ma Baggins]

Thank you  all.

I have signed the Compromis as from all your comments it is not worth negotiating further.  We were aware the electrics were 'odd' to our standards but this report seems to indicate some of our feelings were correct.

 

[La Guerriere]

Congratulations on taking the plunge and good luck. Keep using the forum there is a great fund of knowledge and goodwill out there ... where is your new residence ?

[Ma Baggins]

It is in southern Basse Normandie, nearest town is Carrouges. 

I must be mad we had one viewing trip and i fell for this house and visited it 3 times while we were there, none of the others felt right. I have seen it at it probable at its worst.  We woke up to snow so it was very pretty, but very cold and while viewing it was beginning to melt so was very very wet and with no gutters we got wet going in and out of the house!!  Yet to see it on a warm sunny day so it can only get better. But i cannot wait, I hope to have it for Easter.

[dragonrouge]

Well done you will enjoy France but as in most things what you put in you will get out.

As to devis (quotations) for the work on this forum there will lots of recommendations both in respect of English and French artisans and my only suggestion is that you should ask for three quotes and compare both the bottom line and perhaps the individual lines.  As to roofing and the like you could also (nicely) ask to see examples of their work and here I have even had an artisan give we a slide show on a PC that is how proud he was of his work.

The same goes for plumbing.

Finally just my personal views and simply that.  I lived in Normandie in the countryside and here in the Vendee in a village.  When I compared quotes and let us say there was little in it I supported the local village artisan in that a) it becomes known that you are a supporter of village life and b) in the depths of a Normandie winter and say you are faced with either an electrical or plumbing problem and the artisan(who was given the business) is quite a way away you may or may not get the local artisan in to fix the problem

Here we have a lotissement nearby and with a bespoked service being put together by a company who are some 150kms away.  The local artisan will not go out for a breakdown under any circumstances for yes I know there is the guarantee side but even then and outside the guarantee they will not go out.

For balance there are good English and French artisans all registered but there are some who are not.

[Mme poivre]

dragon rouge I have sent you a PM[:D]

[Philouis]

Don't dismiss the asbestos. We had a sale and when the search revealed asbestos panels under the roof tiles, the buyer pulled out. The Brit house agent told us that we would never get a buyer for th house whilse the asbestos was still there, even though it was in tip top condition. We found a registered English builder who removed all the tiles and replaced the asbestos panels with the harmless variety.

 It was not a cheap job and one year later we managed to sell the house. But we were many thousands of Euros out of pocket. You have been warned!

[AnOther]

[quote user="Philouis"]The Brit house agent told us that we would never get a buyer for the house whilse the asbestos was still there[/quote]A sweeping statement and if that were true then there can scarcely be a house in France over about 30 years old which is saleable. Can we presume you knew about it when you bought the house ?

Would I be wrong in guessing that it was an English buyer for whom the very mention of the word is enough to send into hysterics ?

[ventodue]

Gotta agree, ErnieY.

Asbestos roof sheeting is only a problem when it's broken or deteriorated as this is when the fibres can become airborne.  For example, here is the current UK govt's advice (my underlining) (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/DoingWorkYourself/DG_10022562)

"What to do if you think you have asbestos in your home

It is very hard to identify asbestos, but if you suspect that you are living with asbestos:

• don't panic and leave asbestos alone, it's safe unless it's damaged or disturbed."

Removing it is when it becomes dangerous - it breaks and flakes and fibres can start flying about.  Which is why this is meant to be done by a specialist following the correct work procedures and taking it to a licenced site for disposal.  (Btw, I see its use wasn't completely banned in France until 1997 - 1^er janvier 1997 : L'usage de l'amiante est interdit, par le décret n° 96-1133 du 24 décembre 1996).

As regards having to remove asbestos as a result of a diagnostique, you are only required to do this if the asbestos is already degraded.  For anyone who wants to know more, details here http://www.bmiconseil.fr/index.asp?id=356.

Abestos surveys also help in that they warn you, the owner, to not go and interfere with it, and also so that you can also advise any workmen of its presence.

P.s. White asbestos is not the main concern, anyway.  The real killer is the blue and brown asbestos that was used, for example, in pipe insulation, mainly in commercial buildings (and submarines).

Cheers

Craig

[Philouis]

The prospective buyer was a Brit. But at the time, 80% of prospective buyers were of that breed, so we decided to remove the dreaded A. The worry at the back of peoples minds, is, will I be able to sell the house when the time comes? When we bought the house, we were told by the  English agent, that the house had a 'little' asbestos in the roof! It turned out to be 70%!  Moral. Never trust an agent.!