Immobiliers Contracts.

[Gastines]

A word of warning concerning Contracts with Immobiliers. We undertook a Contrat D'Exclusivite for 6 months with a local estate agent late last year. They insisted on 6 months as they would be advertising it extensively etc. etc. and as the 6 months encompassed largely winter/springtime we were happy to agree. After 4 months with absolutely no viewings at all, we decided it might be a good idea to reduce the asking price, especially with the economic situation as it is. We notified them accordingly, both in writing and with a personal visit and signed what we assumed was a contract to change the price as that was all we had requested. Now that we are nearing the end of the original contract we notified them  that we wished to terminate the contract on the expiry date, only to be told that we had in fact, another 2 months to run on it, due to the fact that at the time of changing the price, they saw fit to issue a new 6 month contract! We have taken issue with them over this, despite the person we dealt with having left the firm, she actually visited our house and told us she was not happy at the time of extending the contract on change of price but as she was an employee, she was in a difficult position. She has advised us to give notice to finish the original contract by recorded delivery, which we  have done and are awaiting confirmation that this is in order. Her husband is a lawyer and she has consulted with him on this matter and he agrees that it is not correct, also the new Immo. has looked at our contract and has found several discrepancies within it, (yes, I know they all discredit each other the world over) but we are now adamant that we want to finish this contract at the end of the first 6 months so are most interested to see if anyone else has encountered the same problem when reducing a price or any other change of detail within a contract,  finally, we were not given the statutory 7 day get out slip at the time of signing the price change agreement,thankyou. MRs Gastines.

[Will]

Being married to an agent immobiler in France I can assure you that they do not discredit each other; reputable agents are happy to work together and recommend others. In fact Judie recommends sellers, particularly at the present time, to market the house with several different agents as well as advertise privately (if they are prepared to handle viewings etc themselves, not always easy for holiday homes).

Posts on these forums constantly warn against exclusive mandats. They are often, but not always, offered, along with all sorts of promises of buyers waiting in the wings, by commission-only sub-agents whose agreement with the principal agent includes taking on houses for sale as well as actually achieving sales. They usually go along with over-optimistic valuations. Almost always, either the seller is pressured to accept a very low offer, or the house is unsold at the end of the contract and eventally sells for a far lower figure. Whereas accepting a realistic valuation in the first place, and placing the house with several agents, normally means it sells quicker, for a better price than is eventually achieved with an exclusive deal.

The 7-day contract 'cooling off period' applies not to sellers, only buyers, and at the compromis de vente stage, not on changing the details of a mandat.

Sorry, it doesn't help your situation, where you have obviously come across one of the less scrupulous French agents, but I think it needs to be said.

Post edited re 7-day cooling off

[Danny]

"The 7-day contract 'cooling off period' applies to sellers, not buyers, and at the compromis de vente stage, not on changing the details of a mandat."

I believe that the seller can cancel the mandat within seven days of signing it if they have a change of heart, but I don't think this is the case for an avenant (issued to ammend details of an existing mandat). Of course, what the original poster should have been offered was an avenant rather than a new mandat - that retains the same expiry date as the original mandat. If you want to lower the price and your mandat is nearing an end, then the agent may well propose a new mandat - but you are perfectly within your rights to refuse. If you sign an exclusive mandat with an agency that runs for, say 6 months, you can cancel it after three months if you so wish - you should request this by registered letter. 

I think exclusive mandats are not to be feared, as long as you understand the implications. The main point for the owner is that it takes away their right to sell the property themselves. Of course, if you don't live in or near the property, then this is not a problem. Some estate agents join together and work as a group when they take on an exclusive mandat, and this can work very well. As Will says, there are a few less scrupulous agencies around, but there are plenty of hard-working, serious ones too.

Jane

[Gastines]

Dear Will,

Thankyou for your reply concerning Mandats etc. Unfortunately, I think you misconstrued the  point I was making about the 7 day cancellation option. I did not refer to the cooling off period following the signing of the Compromis de Vente, I obviously meant the option to cancel the mandat to actually market the property within the following  7 days. (Usually a little tear off strip at the bottom of the duplicate agreement.) Also, I can assure you that the agent concerned did try to discredit the other agents we mentioned, inferring that they were promising buyers or at least viewers and that they must have approached us. Whereas in fact, we approached both of them, unlike the agent with the Exclusiv Mandat at present, who in fact, approached us. We have also been told, possibly true or untrue, that we should not have been asked to sign the Mandat in our home but in the Immobiliers office? Finally, you still failed to answer my original question as to whether or not the second Mandat extending the time it was effective, was actually legal or not. We did not ask for our Mandat to be extended, purely to change the price, so therefore feel it was most unscrupulous to tie us into a longer period of exclusivity, at least without making it clear to us. I might re-iterate that the employee we dealt with actually admitted she was not happy about it at the time. Yours, Mrs Gastines.

 

[Gastines]

Dear Jane,

   Thankyou for your prompt reply. Can I just make clear that the 7 day cooling off period I mentioned was not, obviously the one appropriate at the time of signing of the Compromis but the little slip at the bottom of the duplicate form of agreement, allowing the client 7 days to cancel the Mandat. We were not given one at either stage of the process, the first one being the agreement for a 6 month exclusivity nor the second one, which we thought was purely a change of asking price, not another 6 month contrat. We have sent a registered letter of cancellation and just wanted to clarify the fact that we can cancel the second contrat as it is just 3 months since we were unwittingly trapped into signing it. Obviously, had we known it was not just the simple change of asking price we asked for, we would not have signed, but not knowing about the avenant at the time, we weren't streetwize enough to turn it down.

Yours Faithfully, Mrs Gastines.

[Danny]

Hello again,

As I understand it, if you sign a mandat at the agency's office, it does not have the tear-off strip this is called a mandat (be it exclusif or non-exclusif) sans demarcharge. If you sign it elsewhere (at your home, when the agent visits, for example, or by post), it should be a mandat avec demarcharge, and this will have the tear-off strip. You are signing, in both cases, a contract, which you have the right to retract within the seven days (if it was sent to you, keep the envelope it came in for the date).

I believe there might be a certain amount of notice you have to give in order to cancel at the 3 month stage. I am not sure, but I think it might have to be 15 days before the 3 month point. I will check this for you and let you know. Have a good look at your mandat - it may well tell you in the small print. If I find out I will let you know later today, when I come back from work.

Jane

[Clair]

[quote]Il faut savoir également que, dans tous les cas,

vous pouvez résilier un mandat exclusif à tout moment,

par lettre recommandée avec AR, passé un délai

de trois mois après la signature. La résiliation

prendra effet quinze jours après la réception de votre

lettre. http://www.lavieimmo.com/vendre-V20-les-droits-et-devoirs-de-l-agent-immobilier.html

You should know also that in all cases, you may terminate an exclusive

mandate at any time by registered letter with acknowledgment after a

period of three months after the signing. The termination shall take

effect fifteen days after receipt of your letter.[/quote]

[woolybanana]

Was there not a time when exclusive agency agreements were illegal?

[Will]

Yes, you are quite right. It's all bound up in European contract law, and applies to contracts signed in the home - intended to protect one from the doorstep salesmen, but as so often happens the coverage is somewhat wider. Changing a mandat is a different issue, as is signing a contract on the agent's premises. I was just trying to keep things simple in my original reply.

I'm not a legal expert, or an agent myself, and even if I was I would be wary of answering the question about legality because there are so many guidelines and procedures that may not necessarily carry the full force of the law, and even when a law exists in France there are many modifications and exceptions. But what your 'exclusive' agent is trying to do certainly sounds like a strange and non-standard practice even if it is not actually against the law.

I really don't know what a seller gains from having an exclusive contract. It narrows the options, considerably, and doesn't actually mean the seller gets any more money at the end of the process. As for them being illegal, that may be so in some places but I don't think it has ever been the case in France. The growth of the estate agency profession in France is comparatively recent, at least outside the capital, and the system hasn't in some ways yet caught up with the existence of agents as well as notaires - hence the deposits confusion in another recent topic.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Will"]

The 7-day contract 'cooling off period' applies to sellers, not buyers, and at the compromis de vente stage, not on changing the details of a mandat.

[/quote]

Will in the above isn't this applicable to the buyer and not to the seller?

Paul

[Judie]

Yes, my esteemed husband has it the wrong way round in this instance. It is the buyers who have a 7 day cooling off period following the signing of the compromis. There is no such thing for the seller.

[woolybanana]

Does zat come wiz ze steemed dumplings, Judie???[6]

[Judie]

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Does zat come wiz ze steemed dumplings, Judie???[6][/quote]

Are they made with ordinary beef suet or with vegetable fat for non meat eaters like Dog?

[Will]

Don't worry, dogs eat anything.

[Dog]

Excuse me even dogs have standards.