Social Charges

[parsnips]

[quote user="allanb"]I understand that a UK state retirement pension is subject to the CSG, unless you can produce an E121 or equivalent.  Is a UK public-service pension treated the same way?

(I'm talking only about social charges – not income tax.)

[/quote]

Hi,

       Nobody receiving a UK state retirement pension should be paying social charges on any pensions (except privately purchased annuities declared as" rentes viageres") as they are all entitled to S1 which exempts them under EU reg..1408/71.

        Government pensions are exempt from both french income tax and social charges under the DTT of 2008 art 2, art 19 and art 24

[NormanH]

Nobody receiving a UK state retirement pension should be paying social charges on any pensions

Not quite right in my case.

I have an OAP and a government pension from he UK, but I also have a (tiny) French pension, and that means I am à la charge  de La France for health care, so I believe I am liable for social charges for the OAP and the French pension, but not the government one.

My case could become more common as people who have worked or run businesses in France (as opposed to just having retired here) get to pension age.

[allanb]

[quote user="parsnips"]Nobody receiving a UK state retirement pension should be paying social charges on any pensions (except privately purchased annuities declared as" rentes viageres") as they are all entitled to S1 which exempts them under EU reg..1408/71.[/quote]

Parsnips, with respect, are you sure about that?  As NormanH wrote in another thread –

"The carte vitale won't show that it is the UK who pay for your health care, so you need to show the S1"

This was my understanding also – not that that proves anything – but it's also the view of my local tax inspector, who wants to see the S1 (or perhaps some other acceptable evidence) before he will cancel the CSG assessment on my UK old-age pension. 

Incidentally, if the CSG is defined in the treaty as a tax, that would suggest that the UK old-age pension is subject to CSG, just as it is subject to French income tax.  Obviously this isn't a conclusion I like, but what's the answer to it?  Is the treaty overridden by the EU regulation you quoted?  I hope it is.

[parsnips]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="parsnips"]Nobody receiving a UK state retirement pension should be paying social charges on any pensions (except privately purchased annuities declared as" rentes viageres") as they are all entitled to S1 which exempts them under EU reg..1408/71.[/quote]

Parsnips, with respect, are you sure about that?  As NormanH wrote in another thread –

"The carte vitale won't show that it is the UK who pay for your health care, so you need to show the S1"

This was my understanding also – not that that proves anything – but it's also the view of my local tax inspector, who wants to see the S1 (or perhaps some other acceptable evidence) before he will cancel the CSG assessment on my UK old-age pension. 

Incidentally, if the CSG is defined in the treaty as a tax, that would suggest that the UK old-age pension is subject to CSG, just as it is subject to French income tax.  Obviously this isn't a conclusion I like, but what's the answer to it?  Is the treaty overridden by the EU regulation you quoted?  I hope it is.

Hi,

     Sorry!  I forgot the unfortunates who have been caught by this rule.

 I'm afraid your fears are justified ,  all non--government pensions received by a french resident  (whose revenue exceeds a specified limit and who is "à la charge" of the french health system),    are subject to some level of social charge;   this has apparently  always been the case , but due to the inefficiency of the french tax people , it was not previously collected.  See this document, pages 3 and 4;

www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/deploiement/p1/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7575/fichedescriptiveformulaire_7575.pdf

You will see that it gives directions for declaring on form 2047 and 2042.

[/quote]

[idun]

Well it wouldn't surprise me if UK pensions were liable for CSG etc in France. Our french pension has no CSG on it as we live in the UK. We do pay other social security charges to France and get an S1 from France too, but none of the CSG etc. When the UK pension kicks in, then there'll be no S1 from France and no social security charges on the french pension either.

Although if memory serves, the french were taken to court about this and no CSG should be charged, must be in the archive on here somewhere.