S1

[Quillan]

Mrs Q has just received her S1 as she will become a pensioner in a couple of weeks. I also get an S1 on the back of hers, in fact they sent mine with hers automatically. My question is this, is there any benefit or disadvantage with regards to my B&B business if I hand in my S1 now or would it be better to wait till I get to 65 and officially retire. I should add that of course I am tax resident in France and paying both tax and social contributions here.

[tinabee]

My understanding of the French system is as follows. If you are entitled to healthcare cover in your own right (e.g. by working or running a business) then you should not use another's cover as a dependent.

If you hand in the S1 form for yourself, it may confuse the system enormously if you are already contributing and obtaining healthcare cover through another "caisse".

[NormanH]

If you will be getting a monthly French pension based on the côtisations you have paid in the past (however small the pension)  France will  pay for your health care and you won't get an S1.

If you have a pension so small that they pay it out as a single lump sum it seems that the S1 route still applies.

[Quillan]

Are you talking about French pensions Norman? I has an S1 on the desk by the side of me and it has been issued from the UK automatically on the back of Mrs Q reaching retirement age as far as the UK is concerned from which she will be drawing her UK state pension.

My question is in relationship to myself and not her in that seeing as the B&B is registered in my name and she works for a UK based Chambers and will continue to do so till I am 66 so I can pack in the B&B and we can stop work together and move elsewhere. Will it create any problems if I hand my S1 over to CPAM now or should I wait till I get one in my own right when I am 66 (not 65 because of my d.o.b)? Also will the fact I have been issued an S1 now mean I won't get another when I am 66?

[NormanH]

Yes I am talking about a French Pension.  I thought it might be possible that you will get one based on your earnings and contributions from your B&B.

[Quillan]

OK, last time I got a letter my entitlement was about 50 cents a week..

[idun]

You have been in France quite some time now by my reckoning and so how could it be 50c a week? If you have been running your B&B for 10 years, that is 40 trimestres? which is a quarter of the trimestres you need, or just about. They take into account your UK/EU years and as long as they and the time you worked in France covers all the trimestres needed in France for a full pension, based on your contributions, and it is then calculated pro rata.

I am taking it that you have a full UK/EU working life until you moved to France? If not ofcourse it could be quite different![Www]

I believe that the minimum full pension is over 600€ a month, so even if you only got a quarter it is more than 50c a week. I reckon that even if you only got a few euros you would still come under the french health system, if you remain a french resident.

IF you left France, then probably the country where you had spent the most time, maybe the UK would be responsible for your health care.

I cannot help but imagine that handing in an S1 would not help your situation as you work and have french health care via your cotisation payments.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Quillan"]OK, last time I got a letter my entitlement was about 50 cents a week..[/quote]

As I said above the crucial bit is whether it is enough to be paid monthly or so small that they give you a lump sum.

https://www.lassuranceretraite.fr/cs/Satellite/PUBPrincipale/SalariesMoins35/Montant-Retraite/Comprendre-Calcul-Retraite/Formule-Calcul?packedargs=null

If paid monthly you will be covered by France and the CRAM will simply refuse the S1 even though Newcastle will probably send  it automatically when you get to OAP age.

That is what happened to me anyway.

[andyh4]

Q

 

If you are working - and I guess running your B&B business does count as being employed, then you cannot (legally) use the UK S1.   (I was working for a number of years while OH had her S1 from the UK and could not legally piggy back.  Now on early retirement, I can).  I would have loved to shun the 13% German health insurance premium (automatic deduction from salary), but could not legally do so.

 

I am unsure why you have been sent the S1 because normally you (or rather the OH in our cases) have to specifically request one.

[AnOther]

A dependants S1 is virtually automatic but it's issue does not mean that it's actually valid for use.

Do DWP know that you are employed in France for example, if you haven't told them then how would they know ?

If you are getting your health care by virtue of your B&B then don't believe you are entitled to piggy back onto your OH's S1 whether she's got one for you or not.

If you do end up applying for your pension in France then as I understand it you will be condemned to paying social charges on your income for life.