Social Charges Refund on UK Investment Income

[Laurier]

I thought I saw a post on this but now can't find it. Having just received the avis, they have charged us on UK investment income and I thought I saw a sample reclaim letter saying that under the S1 we are not liable (?) for social charges on investment income.

I thought I read that someone had claimed a test case and won. Is this right? If so, does anyone have a copy of the sample letter, please?

Thanks

Laurier

[cajal]

This is NOT the letter you are searching for but it will explain what info you need to submit with your claim.  Hope it helps.

regards

cajal

[Laurier]

Yes, thanks Cajal. That is extremely useful and does explain everything that I thought I had read. I will digest it more slowly and compose the letter.

Thanks again,

Laurier

[Hereford]

http://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance-forums/cs/forums/2/3276610/ShowPost.aspx#3276610

The letter you need (written by Parsnips in August 2015) is in the thread above.  It is on page 2 (which is where I copied the "link") - sorry that it is not a proper link but I think you can copy and paste.

We, and others, used the letter and have had our refunds.  The first year shown is now out of date but you can add the 2016 (2015 income).

Hope this helps.

Mrs H.

[Laurier]

That's fabulous - thanks very much. If it has worked in various tax offices, you would think the rules would be general around all the tax offices ... obviously ours hasn't cottoned on yet!

Thanks again

Laurier

[Hereford]

Ah well`this year we have all,been charged again as the French are going to re-name/re-allocate the charge next year so that we will have to pay it again.  At least this is what I understand. Therefore we all ask for a refund again this year!! I have already done our appeal letter and deposited at the local tax office.

[Fittersmate]

Went to tax office this morning and asked why we had been charged social charges on savings and investment income this year as we had received reimbursement of charges paid for 2012, 2013 and 2014. Showed the Inspector all our documentation for this , including the relevant official statements regarding holders of S1s not being liable to social charges on savings and investment income. He tapped away at the computer, printed out a degrevement and said we would receive a revised Avis in the post. Result! I was sure that he would say that we would have to pay and then reclaim.

[mint]

Oh well, I have paid up as ours is paid in 3 tranches.

Letter again in the next few days I guess but this is to be expected because one has to go through the designated channels, non?

[Laurier]

We also went to the Tax Office to query the social charges, with all the documentation and typed specimen letter. Our Tax person wasn't as accommodating as yours. She said we had to put in an official letter which would have to go to 'the Direction' and as well as the S1's and the avis plus the other justificatif , we also had to append our Attestations to the CPAM which were the original confirmations before receipt of the Carte Vitales. I'm not sure what the attestations tell them as I can't see anything on them which says we are not affiliated to the French system. Anyway, we have now sent off the payment and will look forward to a refund!

Laurier

[powerdesal]

We received out tax bill a couple weeks ago and immediately made a claim for reclamation, based on the fact that we had reclaimed successfully for the 2013 and 2014 payments.

Got a letter this morning rejecting our claim on the grounds that :-

''for then, since 1st January 2016, the social levies on capital income no longer finance the different branches of the general scheme of social security.

In these conditions, the French legislation has been put in conformity with the law of the European Union as interpreted by the ECJ, the De Ruyter law is no longer applicable to the charges imposed with effect from 1st January 2016.

However, the particular case, the disputed social levies are to be paid for September 15, 2016 or after the 1st January 2016, the date of modification of the law francaise. Partant, they no longer fall within the scope of De Ruyter jurisprudence which you request an application.

Given these items, your claim is dismissed in its totality''

This seems to imply that they are applying the change of law retrospectively, which seems wrong.

I can appreciate that income for 2016 will be charged but it doesn't seem right to apply the law to 2015 income.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Hereford]

We have so far only had an acknowledgment letter from the local office saying that our claim has been sent to the department dealing with it.

[Hereford]

Update to my post yesterday:  Today got an identical letter to yours Powerdesal sent "signature required!"

If we want to appeal the decision to refuse the refund we have to go to court. We won't bother as interest rates being so low means our payment is not all that big.

A friend who has an accountant to do her tax form was sent a letter, by the accountant, to sign to appeal her social charges so it is not just those of us who go it alone who expected to get it back this year.

Quel dommage.

Mrs H

[parsnips]

Hi,

        Anyone who has been refused refund of 2016 charges on 2015 income should appeal first to the "Conciliateur Fiscal" and then , if still refused , to the" Mediateur "  see here;  https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F103

         Send copies of  all correspondence and make the point about retrospectivity.

[Cathar Tours]

I was wondering that if you continue to pay these social payments if it might help you with healthcare when the UK leaves the EU?

[Hereford]

Thanks Parsnips - I suspect that as usual it will depend on where we live...

[parsnips]

[quote user="Cathar Tours"]I was wondering that if you continue to pay these social payments if it might help you with healthcare when the UK leaves the EU?[/quote]

In my opinion - not at all.   The "Social Charges" taken on investment income have nothing to do with access to health care , they are just a disguised tax , described as "social"  to try to fool the french when they were not happy with the level of conventional taxation.

[woolybanana]

Parsnips, didn't you say that last year you had a phone conversation with a big tax 'cheese' in Paris concerning social charges who confirmed that they were illegal? Have you had a similar conversation concerning this year's charges, and if so, what did the 'cheese' have to say?

Just a thought.

[parsnips]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Parsnips, didn't you say that last year you had a phone conversation with a big tax 'cheese' in Paris concerning social charges who confirmed that they were illegal? Have you had a similar conversation concerning this year's charges, and if so, what did the 'cheese' have to say?

Just a thought.[/quote]

Hi,

   The "big cheese" was on the end of the finance ministry "help line", and I phoned last december to test the water before selling a lot of UK shares ( which I then did before  30/12/2015).     He did not appear to be totally up to speed , but after consulting a colleague said that 2015 gains would not be subject to "social charges" but that, as from the following year they would be and it wasn't worth changing the forms, the procedure would be to declare as normal , and , on receipt of the avis , to immediately reclaim as in the last few years ,

   I have submitted my claim , and have been informed that it has been forwarded to the legal department.

 By the way , I have still not been reimbursed for the previous years .

[powerdesal]

There is something very odd happening, the main index page shows a posting by parsnips ''yesterday at 16:29. The last posting on page 3 is shown at 09/09/2016 at 9:52.

What is going on ?