gift of money

[mint]

How much money can someone from the UK give you as a present before you need to declare it?

It's not "funny" money, would be money legally earned and UK tax already paid on it[:D]

[idun]

http://www.leparticulier.fr/jcms/c_110174/donner-sans-etre-impose

This is complicated. I knew it was, but not to the degree it is. I know because a good friend has been seeing the notaire about giving a house to her daughter.

Two sorts, a donation and a present. The present being for something specific, wedding anniversary, birthday etc etc, but that depends on the amount that the person giving it owns, and then no impots.

The donation and that starts being one of those things like inheritance as far as I can tell and could incur a lot of impot if not related in some way.

Could you ask your notaire, or even call les impots.

[AnOther]

Don't know but if it were family money and cash I'd stick it under the mattress and keep stum.

I presume we're not talking about 10's of thousands.

[mint]

It's for a car, so maybe up to say 25k euros.  Would it be better if the person bought me the car instead of giving me the money to buy it?

Id's link seems to suggest that it is better.

[lindal1000]

when I bought my car I paid by direct transfer from a UK currency broker. No one asked where the money came from.

[andyh4]

That is a slightly different situation Linda.

You can be sure that the transaction will have been reported to the authorities (I think anything over 12500€ is reportable and anything over 50000€ requires an automatic declaration of where the funds have come from) and it may well be that the seller (as recipient) will have had to explain where these funds came from - not generally a problem for a car dealer perhaps. Then again perhaps not.

In Mint's case, as the recipient, it is she who will have to justify where the funds have come from - if the authorities decide to investigate.

[mint]

Andy, I have no problem showing exactly where the money's come from.  I just want to know whether tax is payable on a money gift............I mean for me in France.

The generous family member who is giving it to me will have been taxed on it already in the UK.

[idun]

http://www.notretemps.com/argent/donation/cadeaux-d-argent-limites,i20543

It won't matter where any tax has already been paid, this is sort of like an inheritance and will be treat as such by french authorities. If it is your parents, then you would be OK, they can 'donate' a lot without any impots being paid.

This link mentions cadeaux, and if say, you were getting this car for a birthday present, then it would be justified.

I really think that you need to talk to someone about this very generous present you are getting.

Strange innit, that Ministres until very recently used to have trunks of cash delivered to them to do with as they pleased........ although this is supposed to have stopped and someone is in a bit of bother about it at the moment...... which is odd, as someone somewhere must have authorised it and sent it through, it doesn't magic itself to the ministres.

Personally I think that any of us should be able to be generous with a gift if we want and that is that, why should anyone we give to have to pay tax on a gift???? Any alternative stinks.

[lindal1000]

I would just buy the car and say nothing. I don't think the tax office will even be informed.

I inherited money from my mothers UK estate when she died. The UK estate is taxed in the UK and of no interest to the French tax authorities (and yes, I did check). If anyone asks about the money I say it is my inheritance. No one ever questions it. I would have thought the only issue with the gift would be if the donor died within 6 years, in which case the UK tax authorities would class the gift as part of their estate.

[mint]

Thank you Lindal and Id.

The thing is I don't need the money to buy the car because I can pay for it outright from funds we already have.  So I'll make a decision as to whether to get the giver to pay the garage direct or for me to buy the car myself and for him to put the money into my UK account which I will then transfer to my French one.

Might have guessed that even such a simple thing as being the recipient of a nice, generous gesture would have implications with the tax authority.  In fact, I sort of suspected it and that was the reason I posted the question.

[idun]

Lindal, from parents, we can all have quite a lot of money sans impots.

mint that sounds like the best idea really. Get it paid into your UK account, and then bit by bit transfer it back. Big transfers  by us 'little' people always get attention these days.

Oligarcs............does their money get any attention other than.........oh yes please....... we'll have it and do you want to buy up half of London or Paris......... ...... and the provenance of their money...... well......who knows.

[parsnips]

[quote user="mint"]How much money can someone from the UK give you as a present before you need to declare it?

It's not "funny" money, would be money legally earned and UK tax already paid on it[:D]

[/quote]

Hi,

     There is no legal requirement to declare a "don manuel" of cash or other non real- estate .

There are only 3 situations when such gifts have to be declared :

 1. If the french tax authorities become aware of the gift - ie informed by a french bank (as they do) of a large sum being paid in with no known origin - so pass the money via UK accounts possibly in stages .

2.If you spontaneously declare it to  the tax office -why would you if it is not legally required?

3.A reserved heir is supposed to declare a gift at the (french) succession of the donor- not applicable here.

I assume that the money will be transferred to you in the UK so you have no need to declare it anywhere. 

Even if the most unlikely happened and the french tax office , in some way , learned of the gift , there are no penalties, provided you gave details within a month of them asking you about it.

[idun]

parsnips I am sure that I have read that such a donation to a friend or distant relative for example could end up with a 60% tax bill. I am sure I read it in french, where, unfortunately, I didn't save it.

[woolybanana]

Nimt, the gift you are gonna get comes from outside France and has no implications for French inheritance tax or anything else, though you should be able to prove the origins if necessary.

Go buy that car girl.

[mint]

[quote user="parsnips"][quote user="mint"]How much money can someone from the UK give you as a present before you need to declare it?

It's not "funny" money, would be money legally earned and UK tax already paid on it[:D]

[/quote]

Hi,

     There is no legal requirement to declare a "don manuel" of cash or other non real- estate .

There are only 3 situations when such gifts have to be declared :

 1. If the french tax authorities become aware of the gift - ie informed by a french bank (as they do) of a large sum being paid in with no known origin - so pass the money via UK accounts possibly in stages .

2.If you spontaneously declare it to  the tax office -why would you if it is not legally required?

3.A reserved heir is supposed to declare a gift at the (french) succession of the donor- not applicable here.

I assume that the money will be transferred to you in the UK so you have no need to declare it anywhere. 

Even if the most unlikely happened and the french tax office , in some way , learned of the gift , there are no penalties, provided you gave details within a month of them asking you about it.

[/quote]

Parsnips, you have put my mind at rest and I thank you for your explanation and the trouble you have taken to post.

Wools, yes, I have the car in mind!  Look out for my next thread re cars[:D]

[AnOther]

[quote user="parsnips"]1. If the french tax authorities become aware of the gift - ie informed by a french bank (as they do) of a large sum being paid in with no known origin - so pass the money via UK accounts possibly in stages.

>

>

I assume that the money will be transferred to you in the UK so you have no need to declare it anywhere. 

Even if the most unlikely happened and the french tax office , in some way , learned of the gift , there are no penalties, provided you gave details within a month of them asking you about it.[/quote]

Both smack of deception and tax evasion to me and why would you be bothered about the French tax man finding out if it were all above board ?

The idea that just because money is deposited into a UK bank means that you don't have to declare it is ridiculous, according to that the two small private pensions I have deposited there are non declarable.

Whichever way you look at it it's income and even if it is somehow exonerated under French rules that's for the French tax man to decide not you so simply not declaring it cannot be the correct way.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the advice being given only the reasoning behind it.

Personally I would have thought a cleaner way to enact such a gift would be for the giver to transfer the money direct to the dealer, some might even take a credit card over the phone, that way there would be no real financial trail to follow and and even if it did somehow come to the attention of the tax man far easier to justify a car as a gift then a secretive money transfer.

[mint]

I follow your reasoning, Ano.  Fortunately, I don't have to decide this very minute how to do it.  I'm going to buy the car with my own money and then make a decision as to how best to accept the gift.

[parsnips]

[quote user="idun"]parsnips I am sure that I have read that such a donation to a friend or distant relative for example could end up with a 60% tax bill. I am sure I read it in french, where, unfortunately, I didn't save it.

[/quote]

Hi,

   Yes , that's right, if the tax office knows about the gift; but as I explained , you are not legally required to declare receiving such a gift , so , if you transfer the money between UK bank accounts , or in cash, and avoid large unexplained deposits in your french bank accounts (the banks will inform the tax office), there is no way the french tax people will know about it.

[mint]

Parsnips, I understand completely what you are saying.

I have paid a deposit for the car and the rest will come from our main French bank account.  I have always transferred the odd 5k or so for living expenses from the UK and so I don't anticipate any hooha...................famous last words.  Thank you again, Parsnips!