latest on those pesky social contributions, please

[Quillan]

The problem is France and that it does not like change and lives in the past.

 

Very few farmers these days do CdH in the way it was initially intended. CdH's have now become a proper business and therefore proper jobs for those running them which measn they should be paying tax in the same way as anyone who is an employer/employee. When we came to live here we were the only CdH for about 4km, now we have four within 1km2 and most of those started up by foreigners because when the laws changed about healthcare (you have to contribute to use it) owning and running a CdH was the easiest option especially with the reluctance of French companies to employ foreign workers (even if they did speak French quite well). Now for me it would be stupid to stop until the laws change, even if I only run a couple of rooms for half the year because of the tax benefits i.e. not paying any. In this day and age it really is a stupid system but whilst it remains as it is many, including myself, will carry on doing it and reaping the benefits.

 

Like you said in the bit you deleted about it being designed for the farmers wife to earn a little pocket money, why then can we divide the income in half and declare it as two seperate parts? I shouldn't even come into the equation, it should be all down on the wifes tax decleration and then we would be paying at least some tax (you lose on of the 'parts'). Anyway it is not for me to tell the French how to run their affairs, I tried once with the Tresor Public and basically was told to rugger off. To coin that well used expat saying "you wouldn't get away with that in England".

[Chancer]

I seem to have fallen into the same rose smelling bucket as Quillan by the same procedure, I simply filled out the forms in exactly the manner I was told to and submitted them to the contrôleur who told me what to do. I am declaring revenues Under the old system and not Under AE, it may have been facilitated by me having a small salary from the lycée last year albeit 1/4 of the rental revenues which like Q are declared as revenues BIC non Professional.

 

The first major present is the 71% abattement meaning I only pay tax, were I to pay any [:-))] on 29% of the takings, in fact all I paid was the CSG as I am Under the taxable threshold which equates to about 2.8% of my total revenues.

 

Now I am still Under the tax threshold but wont be next year, Q talks about UK rentals, plural plus a salary and maybe a pension as well, these should all be taken into account and added to his CDH income to work out his French tax band and liability, it would appear this is not happening and I am fairly sure that looking through my avis d'impôts that my declared UK revenues are not being considered either, I believe that they are being declared in the correct box, in any case even if it were the wrong box I dont think there are any foreign earnings that are not taken into account, I think the computer just isnt programmed to do the correct calculation, and as Q once said to me, dont go poking a bear with a stick [:D]

 

My conscience is relatively clear because I did actually point out one mistake the guy made, he told me to multiply the UK earnings by 0.8 to get the figure in Euros, I corrected him and said he must have meant divide by 0.8 but I didnt win any Browny points, as things have worked out it would not have made any difference, I hope that I have as long a run as Quillan.

[Fittersmate]

Not having received any acknowledgement re our claim I looked on the Impots site (Mon Espace) and found that our claims are listed there. Can anyone tell me what

"décision réclamation sans sursis" means, please.

Many thanks.

[mint]

Hi Fittersmate, I couldn't give you a word for word translation but what that means is "decision pending".

Good luck with your claim and please, please, please, DO let us know what happens!

[Fittersmate]

Thanks so much - will certainly let you know when/if I hear any more.

[parsnips]

[quote user="Fittersmate"]Not having received any acknowledgement re our claim I looked on the Impots site (Mon Espace) and found that our claims are listed there. Can anyone tell me what

"décision réclamation sans sursis" means, please.

Many thanks.[/quote]

Hi,

     It means that a decision is pending , but in the meantime you have to pay by the due dates and possibly get a refund .  A "sursis" is a postponement of payment which can sometimes be obtained until a decision is made.

[Hereford]

Result!  We are loathe to be pleased about anything today but: we have had a letter from Les Impots accepting our claim for repayment of the Social Charges taken for the three years 2012/13/14.  They are keeping back a small amount for 2012 and 2013 which is a 2% charge for solidarite which in 2014 was merged into the rest so we get all of that year's charge back.

We have two months to appeal against this result...  The document does not yet appear on our online account so we don't know when the actual cash will arrive

Mrs H.

[Fittersmate]

Good news for you - hope to hear from our Impots soon that our claim for repayment has been accepted.

[mint]

[quote user="Hereford"]Result!  We are loathe to be pleased about anything today but: we have had a letter from Les Impots accepting our claim for repayment of the Social Charges taken for the three years 2012/13/14.  They are keeping back a small amount for 2012 and 2013 which is a 2% charge for solidarite which in 2014 was merged into the rest so we get all of that year's charge back.

We have two months to appeal against this result...  The document does not yet appear on our online account so we don't know when the actual cash will arrive

Mrs H.

[/quote]

Mrs H, thank you for letting us know; it's good of you to post this piece of good news.

Now perhaps, more of us will come on and say we have had the same RESULT!  Wouldn't that be good?

[woolybanana]

Norman should do well when he gets his dosh back. Any chance of a loan, Norm, moving house is not cheap?

[mint]

Wools, when they give me my money back, you could borrow all of it![:D][:P][;-)]

[Fittersmate]

This morning we received a letter from Direction Departementale du Morbihan at Vannes with regard to our claim. They have asked for copies of our E121/S1 for the years claimed despite the fact that we sent these with our initial claim.

Will send them off today and see what happens next.

[mint]

Fittersmate, I don't know whether we have copies of those documents![:-))]

Wools, you got a copy from your CPAM, didn't you?  Perhaps it's time for me to start the paper chase........[:'(]

[woolybanana]

Yes, Nimt. They were kind enough to go into their archives, dig out the paperwork and send a photocopy which I have now put behind glass, so to speak. I think I did thank them publicly on this forum if I remember rightly.

Newcastle will NOT issue copies.

This does show that the system is beginning to work however; I think that being slow is only to be expected. What will be interesting is to discover whoich departements are slower than others and how the rules are interpreted.

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Yes, Nimt. They were kind enough to go into their archives, dig out the paperwork and send a photocopy which I have now put behind glass, so to speak. I think I did thank them publicly on this forum if I remember rightly.

Newcastle will NOT issue copies.

This does show that the system is beginning to work however; I think that being slow is only to be expected. What will be interesting is to discover whoich departements are slower than others and how the rules are interpreted.[/quote]

So, Wools, do you think it's wise to move to another department at this time?[:P]

[Hereford]

Having spent years sending post to HMRC (we are both accounants) we always either staple all documents together or if too "thick" put them on a green treasury tag. This makes it harder for "them" to lose bits of a letter.

We did this with our claim for the Social Contributions and had no queries.  You should enclose both copies of E121/S1 and also copies of your fiscal statement for each year.  This makes it harder for Les Impôts to prevaricate.

We have never seem Treasury tags in France but make sure we keep a supply from the UK! Even threading string through the package would do.

Mrs H

[mint]

Thanks for the tips, Mrs H.

I'll best start getting all these forms and photocopies done against the day when they write back, asking for these things!

[Quillan]

[quote user="Fittersmate"]This morning we received a letter from Direction Departementale du Morbihan at Vannes with regard to our claim. They have asked for copies of our E121/S1 for the years claimed despite the fact that we sent these with our initial claim.

Will send them off today and see what happens next.[/quote]

Not to sure if I understand this. When we received our S1's last year it said that we should make a minimum of ten copies for further use as and when required. As far as I understood they get issued only once in the case of state aged retirees. I guess you can ask the UK for a duplicate but don't know as I have never tried. Therefore how can you supply one for every year?

[Hereford]

You only get an S1 once, and for the claim we did for three years all at once we attached one photocopy. It is the Avis d'Impôt for each year you need.  Just keep photocopyng the orignal S1 whenever you are asked for a copy.

Odd really as the Impôts know we have one!

[mint]

No excuse I know but, having moved house once, it could be that the originals are somewhere to be dug out.  If not found, it will have to be a trip to see the CPAM.

Never been asked by Impots for a copy and therefore have been happily going along like rowing a boat merrily down the stream..................ugh, how childish I seem![:-))]

[Fittersmate]

Thought I would post text of letter which we received. I am assuming that as we both have S1s/E121s that we do not have to provide any evidence etc re our matrimonial regime.

OBJET : Demande de régularisation d’une réclamation

Afin de permettre l'examen de votre demande, je vous invite à transmettre les renseignements ou justificatifs ci-après :

1. Pour chacun des membres du foyer fiscal il vous appartient de justifier de l'affiliation à un régime de sécurité sociale d'un autre Etat membre de l'Union européenne, de I'Espace économique européen ou de la Suisse au 31/12 de l'année au titre de laquelle les revenus soumis aux prélèvements contestés ont été perçus ; soit en ce qui vous concerne au 31/12/2012, au 31/12/2013 et au 31/12/2014.

A cet égard, vous pourrez notamment en justifier par la production :

A - Pour les personnes domiciliées en France :

du document d'inscription en vue de bénéficier de prestations de l'assurance-maladie (Document S1 de la Coordination des systèmes de sécurité sociale) dûment complété par l'autorité compétente de l'Etat où vous êtes affilié, ou si vous êtes travailleur détaché en France ou travailleur pluri-actif, du certificat concernant la législation de sécurité sociale applicable au titulaire (Document A1 de la Coordination des systèmes de sécurité sociale), également complété par l'autorité compétence de l'Etat où vous êtes affilié.

Vous pouvez égalementjustifier de votre situation par la production des formulaires, selon le cas, E101, E103, E106 ou E121.

2. Si vous êtes marié (ou partenaire d'un Pacte civil de solidarité) et soumis a imposition commune a l'impot sur le revenu, et que l'un des epoux est affilie dans un autre Etat membre que la France, votre situation matrimoniale est susceptible d'avoir une incidence sur l'etendue de vos droits au regard de la jurisprudence De Ruyter.

A cet égard, les principes suivants sont rappelés :

s'agissant des revenus (au sens strict : revenus fonciers, revenus de capitaux mobiliers) :

- si vous être marié sous un régime matrimonial de type communautaire (communauté réduite aux acquêts qui est le régime légal en l'absence de contrat de mariage, ou communauté universelle) : les revenus réalisés sont réputés communs aux époux ;

— si vous êtes marié sous un régime matrimonial séparatiste : les revenus sont propres à l'époux propriétaire du bien qui les produit (à défaut de justification de la propriété du bien, celui-ci sera considéré comme détenu en indivision, et les revenus répartis pour moitié à chaque conjoint).

s'agissant des plus-values :

- sous un régime communautaire : les plus-values portant sur des biens ou droits détenus par la communauté (tous les biens du couple dans un régime de communauté universelle, les biens acquis à compter du mariage dans le régime de communauté légale réduite aux acquets) sont des gains communs aux époux ; en revanche les plus-values se rapportant aux biens propres (biens acquis avant le mariage, ou acquis en remploi dans un régime de communauté réduite aux acquêts) demeurent propres à l'époux qui était propriétaire du bien.

- sous un régime séparatiste : la plus-value est propre à l'époux propriétaire du bien ou droit cédé

Par conséquent, il convient :

- que vous précisiez, en le justifiant, de votre régime matrimonial ;

- que vous justifiez, le cas échéant, du caractère propre à l'un ou l'autre époux, des revenus ou plus-values qui ont supporté les prélèvements sociaux concernés.

[mint]

Thank you, Fittersmate.  I am definitely going to have to pull my thumb out and get the paperwork needed.

I am going to go belt and braces and give them everything mentioned in your text, regardless of whether they want them or not.

[Antonia]

We received a letter today informing us that they were going to refund all of the social charges levied against the interest earned on our UK bank accounts. The letter however makes no mention of our claim for the refund of the charges taken at source from our French bank accounts and assurance vie.

Is anyone else only getting refunded on "foreign" earnings?

[tinabee]

Just submitted a claim for French investment income only (AV and Livret) so will update when we hear anything.

[Jonzjob]

A visit to our impot yesterday afternoon revealed that they are closed Wednesday and Friday afternoons!!! So back again this morning.

The lady we saw, after a not too long wait, was very helpful and 10 mins later we left with the knowledge that our paperwork is now in the system and a receipt as well. She also told us not to expect a reply tomorrow [:-))]