Flash Gordon

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Will"]

I have no axe to grind for Gordon Brown, and don't particularly like the man or his style of governance, though he was a very successful chancellor for a long period, but let's deal with facts rather than polemic.

[/quote]

But at what cost Will ? I'll refer you back to one episode when, despite all the warnings from the experts, he sold off over half of the UKs gold reserves. 400 tons to be exact and it is estimated, following the run on gold that this sale caused, to have cost the UK tax payer over 3.5 billion pounds.

This isn't a story made up by the media, or any Labour haters, its fact.

Hardly prudent I think.

.

[Quillan]

The first thing I would like to dismiss is that its not just people on this forum that are having a laugh at GB expense about his slight of tongue the other day and its not because it was really funny.

A lot of us read online news papers from the UK, we also watch the news on various UK channels. I see that Will is trying to make an under the table comment yet again about his perceived intelligence level of Daily Mail readers when many of us probably read the same papers as him. Mind you I always find it amusing that some pass comments about something being a ‘Daily Wail’ thing, the only way they could know this is by reading it themselves. From all these sources it is very easy for anyone to get a balanced view of what is going on in the UK. Perhaps those of us that live in France see things from an un-blinkered view as opposed to those who live all or part of their time in the UK.

My personal thoughts are that its not really GB that people are laughing at but more New Labour, GB’s comment seems to echo how New Labour see themselves but are to frightened to come out and say so in public. More of a Freudian slip I think yet not really funny.

Very few government members, if any now, have actually been raised or experienced working class, most have read about it at university. Perhaps the last ‘statesman’ of any consequence to have ‘come up’ through the working classes was John Prescot. New Labour has lost its conscience just as the other parties have and has only one interest, to be the winner in the next race for Number 10 and at any cost with the British public being the least of their worries except when it comes to getting votes of course.

The UK has become one of the most legally oppressed countries. Since New Labour came in to power it has passed roughly 3,605 new laws. Quite a lot you already think yet more staggering are that about 3,000 of them were passed between 1997 and 2001 yet when we look back at the previous say 8 years prior to New Labour only 494 were passed.

Not only have many of these laws been a total infringement on our civil liberties but some just beggar belief. For instance, it is illegal under New Labour to sell grey squirrels, yes you got it, there’s a squirrel peddling law.

The biggest issue is that New Labour are not dealing with social issues properly, rather than lead with a carrot and educate people better they believe in beating people over the head with legislation. This is something spotted a few years back by Enver Solomon (deputy director of the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies at King's College, London) when he said "Broadly, there's a trend within New Labour thinking that more and more issues relating to social matters and civil issues are dealt with through the criminal system."

Another issue is the old onion of health care and education. Naturally people want the best health care and education they can get for their families and children yet New Labour have constantly failed to live up to their election promises, we are still in a ‘post code lottery’ situation where new schools and hospitals are coming online in areas where from electoral point of view it’s the most important. What the public are seeing is health and education being effectively rationed. In many areas hospitals are closing and services moving making it necessary for patients to travel from one end of a county to another to get the care they require. In some cases they have to travel even further a field. We even see life extending drugs being rationed because of their cost especially amongst cancer patients resulting, until very recently, people having to sell their homes to effectively live longer.

The amount of money being poured in to health and education by New Labour is absolutely staggering and prior to the current financial crisis took up most of the debt accumulated by them. More staggering is the fact that this is simply not enough and the government has had to resort to PFI the cost of which will have to be paid back in about 25 years time and like many of the other New Labour debts the tab will be picked up by the already over burdened tax payer. Talking of which we could mention the 10p rate, another massive c@ckup directly effecting the poor and needy. It’s the sort of thing  a socialist would expect a Tory government to do but to do it themselves is an excellent example of how to shoot yourself in the foot.

Over the last three or four years that I have watched UK TV I have seen adverts for loans (only to be punctuated by that other great little earner, lets sue somebody, anyone will do), consolidate your debts, borrow more money, buy a car, go on holiday etc, etc. Clearly, even those who are mentally challenged can understand you can’t carry on this way and at some point it’s going to go bang. Then the banks got in on the act, driven by greed, buying sub prime loans from American banks that had lent money to people in much the same way as was what was happening in the UK. They saw it coming so they offloaded as much as they could and the UK banks went for it as easy money, or so they were told.

New Labours answer was to bale out these banks with tax payers money only then to tell them that they must lend out more money. Who do they have to lend the bulk of the money to, the tax payer of course, the ones that lent the banks their money in the first place, smoke and mirrors comes to miknd. Sadly for New Labour it’s back fired because many have seen through this, realised what’s going on and have refused to increase their spending by borrowing more.

So now we see a government who no doubt wish they had the ‘family silver’ that the Tories had to sell off to help them out the mire but unfortunately they are left rattling round the loft looking in old draws to see if there is anything left like the Met Office or Ordinance Survey for example but there is little left except a few hundred tons of gold but then they have been flogging that of on the QT over the years and nobody noticed.

So now the UK is riddled with debt getting bigger by the day as the financial crisis takes its toll. People are struggling, the cost of living is going through the roof, fuel up 39% (strange how electricity on went up about 2.7% in France this year). Sure Tesco’s are selling food at 50% off, its only an illusion because when its gone where do they fresh supplies from and how much will it cost, I can see massive price increases over the next 6 months, inflation is only round the corner and it will arrive big time.

To make things worse GB announced he is actually bringing forward large capital expenditure, new hospitals and schools for example by borrowing even more money. People are not stupid, most can see what’s round the corner, somebody has to pay this debt back and they know who will pay, them, their children and possibly their grand children.

So when GB stands up and makes a slip up by saying ‘we saved the world’ people did fall about laughing although I suspect that in truth its not out of hilarity it’s a nervous hysterical laugh because they are scared of what lurks ahead for them and theirs.

Sorry for the length of post.

 

[Kitty]

If you want to watch the Prime Minister's Questions (just the 6 asked by David Cameron), look here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPwJQ1JhBIM

What you will see is that once GB made the verbal slip, instead of just saying Whoops (like Blair did once when it happened to him), he tried to cover it up several times, digging hinself into a deeper hole.

 

[Dick Smith]

Quillan - I can't really go through such a long post and rebut it all, but just as a taster - selling squirrels is so illegal that the guvment actually provides a grant to trappers so that they can catch them and sell them to game shops...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7347828.stm

and the Guardian is providing recipes (but of course that will be left-wing lies):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/may/11/recipes.foodanddrink

They are on sale in the West Country:

http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/johngrimes/nuts-squirrel/article-398476-detail/article.html

and in Scotland:

http://news.scotsman.com/squirrels/Grey-squirrels-are-now-a.4442404.jp

But of course what you are referring to is a hysterical article in the Independent (Trades Descriptions Act?) from 2006

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blairs-frenzied-law-making--a-new-offence-for-every-day-spent-in-office-412072.html

which has all the hallmarks of a frenzied propaganda exercise...

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Cathy"]

If you want to watch the Prime Minister's Questions (just the 6 asked by David Cameron), look here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zPwJQ1JhBIM

What you will see is that once GB made the verbal slip, instead of just saying Whoops (like Blair did once when it happened to him), he tried to cover it up several times, digging hinself into a deeper hole.

 

[/quote]

Yes, he made a slip and it embarrassed him. Never done that?

Of course, such a major error means that he is unfit for office.

People really need to get over themselves...

[Quillan]

Well Dick wrong again about grey squirrels. You can only kill Grey Squirrels if you have a licence. Grey Squirrels used for human food must be bred in captivity and are not allowed, under law to ever be released in to the wild. Its actually bunched in with the laws about mink and other such 'non native mammals'. My source, well not a news paper I am afraid but Defra. I did since you mention it do a search and found the same thing reported not only in the Guardian but another of your favorite newspapers The Daily Mail and on the C4 website. The reason I mentioned it was just another stupid law created and that I thought had not been publicised and nobody knew about it but from your comments I can see I was wrong. Carry on, I'm off to bed but I have recorded Question Time to watch tomorrow but from the first two questions it seems I am not alone in my thinking.

[Dick Smith]

So you agree that it isn't illegal to sell squirrels?

Like you said it was...

[Salty Sam]

[quote user="Quillan"]Well Dick wrong again about grey squirrels. You can only kill Grey Squirrels if you have a licence. [/quote]

I would appreciate the source of your information in order I may pass it on to a gamekeeper friend of mine who is interested to know when the law changed?

I think you need to research your facts a little more carefully!

[Dick Smith]

Yes, I've got a pal who must be more than a little illegal in that area...

[Quillan]

Just tell them to have a punt around on the Defra website, its there if they spend about 15 minutes looking for it.

What these questions do show is that obviously squirrel killing is far more important than social and economic situation within the UK and as its the only subject bought up about my post I take it that there is no argument about the rest of it.

Nobody is interested that women have to start preparing for work once their child hits 1 year of age and that when they do they return to work there are very few registered child minders and that they are not free and that the cost of using one takes such a large amount out of their salary their take home pay is shrunk dramatically and that they end up financially worse off than if they stayed at home. New Labour goes on about family values yet they are keen to take children away from their mothers when they are at their most venerable and need them the most.

People who suffer long term illness/injury are going to be forced back to work even when thousands of able body people are loosing their jobs. What was the figure mentioned, 1.2M people registered looking for work and there are only half a million jobs in the market place. There are also hundreds and thousands of people who are not eligible to register with job centres because they can't cater for their professions. Teachers are a good one, go to the Jobcentre website and do a search, there's only 14 advertised teachers jobs (as of today) within the UK of which 4 are in London/Greater London area and very few of them are for schools.

I saw on QT that he never said he saved the the world, he said he saved the world banking system. Well you can all make your own mind up on that one.

[Will]

[quote user="Quillan"]

...I see that Will is trying to make an under the table comment yet again about his perceived intelligence level of Daily Mail readers...

So when GB stands up and makes a slip up by saying ‘we saved the world’ people did fall about laughing although I suspect that in truth its not out of hilarity it’s a nervous hysterical laugh because they are scared of what lurks ahead for them and theirs.

[/quote]

Not quite sure what comment you are referring to, but any allusions I make tend to be about the Daily Mail's editorial stance rather than its readers. As I spent several years as a managing editor for the DM's publishers I feel, probably mistakenly, able to comment.

The English paper I read is The Times. Here's something from today's write-up about the financial situation in Europe:
"'Super Sarko', who does not claim modesty among his qualities, is telling colleagues that he has triumphed by steering Europe through the financial crunch - with Gordon Brown's help - and creating a new political purpose in the moribund Union."

Perhaps those who thought they may have escaped Gordon Brown by moving to France need to be very afraid. [;-)]

[Bugsy]

None of all this current stuff about 'what paper you read' etc, has any relevance to this subject whatsoever.

History has shown that it is just plain and simple human nature that if someone (anyone) puts themselves on a pedestal, they will suffer the consequences when they fail (make gaffs, or generally f*ck up).

Thats it, really....................simple.

[Ron Avery]

A commentator yesterday said that if anyone thinks the work of Parliament is about Prime Minister's question time they should think again.  Its a punch and judy show for the media.  The work of Parliament goes on in committee rooms and in the many other hours of debate.  Its all good fun for the Westminster village to laugh about a gaffe but in the great scheme of things what does it really matter?  If Brown does not save the banks or the world even at least give him credit for doing something.

What it looks like is the right wing press are really getting jittery desperate even, following the dismal performance of the Tories in this crisis,  the action being proposed by the government to get the lame and lazy off benefits and back to work, or in quite a few cases back to the UK [6] ..........and they now see Brown and the Labour Party surging towards a poll lead just in time for the financial pick up in the New Year and a general election in the spring, with a margin of error of +- 5% we are in front already[:P]

All together (tune the red flag)  "The working class can kiss my arse, I've bought my maison secondaire at last"[:D][:D]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

......................just in time for the financial pick up in the New Year.........................

[/quote]

Whoopee, its true, Ron said so, now all we have to do is get over the next couple of months.............[Www][:D]

.

[Frederick]

   I have this dream of two sections of the community....one holding out a hand wearing a placard on it  " Please Give Had money but lost it under Labour "  and the other half  wearing a placard  "Cant  give... have money but losing it  fast under Labour "  

[ali-cat]

The Irish Republic, once Eurozone's star performer, shares many features with the UK economy including a house price bubble; high public debt and a government that squandered a decade of growth.

A UK recovery in 2009 looks a tad optimistic. Scroll to the chart at the end - EEK!!

http://www.sustainability.ie/economy2008.html

Mr Cat

[Russethouse]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

A commentator yesterday said that if anyone thinks the work of Parliament is about Prime Minister's question time they should think again.  Its a punch and judy show for the media.  The work of Parliament goes on in committee rooms and in the many other hours of debate.  Its all good fun for the Westminster village to laugh about a gaffe but in the great scheme of things what does it really matter?  If Brown does not save the banks or the world even at least give him credit for doing something.

What it looks like is the right wing press are really getting jittery desperate even, following the dismal performance of the Tories in this crisis,  the action being proposed by the government to get the lame and lazy off benefits and back to work, or in quite a few cases back to the UK [6] ..........and they now see Brown and the Labour Party surging towards a poll lead just in time for the financial pick up in the New Year and a general election in the spring, with a margin of error of +- 5% we are in front already[:P]

All together (tune the red flag)  "The working class can kiss my arse, I've bought my maison secondaire at last"[:D][:D]

[/quote]

Gordon Brown" doing something" ?

What is that then, abolishing a 10p tax band so the less well off are even worse off ? Or the 2.5% off of VAT ? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns!

A lady on QT last night spoke about the need to prime the economic pump - you don't do that with 2.5% off VAT (or as in last nights QT 37.5p off the cost of a pair of shoes) On the other hand a significant reduction on stamp duty, or raising the tax threshold may have helped the housing market (often the engine that helps drive the economy) and given confidence.

My mother is 88, she was brought up in a household where they used to read and discuss current affairs, they often had three newspapers a day, she doesn't watch much television now but does watch the News and Question Time etc... Yesterday she said " This is the worst government in my life time" (shame she hasn't got a PC to debate it with you, Ron)

 

[Quillan]

Perhaps GB could learn from Super Sarko as well, like help with small business's which is exactly what they are trying to do in France with new Euntrepenuer scheme. Give people help in starting small business which hopefully will grow and flower thus producing more jobs hence cutting down long term those who are unemployed and taking benefit. Mind you if memory serves that's a Thatcher idea, its what she did and it worked. Under her I personally created a business that started with just me and when I sold it had up to 40 employees on the books.This terrible drop in the value of the pound does good for exports and it is sad to say will be around for a long time so perhaps this is the perfect time to give as much help and encouragement as possible to small business's.

The Germans are not to happy with GB and his handling of the current situation either and didn't hold back on their thoughts either. For every one EU politician that stands up and says good old Gordon there is another ready to disagree.

World investment definitely does not see GB as the hero hence the pound being at its lowest across just about every currency, your money and investment is just not secure in the UK anymore and the main place they are heading is Euroland with the US not far behind as a second choice.

It's no good saying its the news papers, be they right wing, left wing or any other wing, are just being negative there are plenty of non journalistic sources that one can access to see whats happening as some have already given links to. What is happening in true British style is that if we ignore it then it will all go away, well I have news, it will but not for a very long time, the bill for this has to be paid if not by us then our children and their children.

As some of the QT panel members said last night the problem with New Labour is it does at times have some really good ideas but unfortunately they either never implement them or dump them half way through. I thought the guy who said that mothers and people on the sick should not worry to much about New Labours proposals because of just that reason so it will probably never happen.

Gay, you missed the bit what the guy with the shoes said about him having to buy 300 (I think he said) to save enough money to offset his fuel price increases this year alone.

I can remember some past members of this forum saying on another forum that its all fluffy and rose tinted glass's here, well judging by some of the comments from some of the people here I rather suspect the shoe is on the other foot. Some appear to be in a railway tunnel, the train is hurtling towards them at 100mph with the biggest light on the front anyone has ever seen but sadly they are the only ones that can't see it coming.

[Bugsy]

Just for a laugh

'Cause its better than crying

This is also very funny but extremely rude, so don't open if your easily offended

.

[Salty Sam]

[Quote user="Quillan"]

Just tell them to have a punt around on the Defra website, its there if they spend about 15 minutes looking for it. [/Quote]

No it isn't! You are wrong.

Remember this one from 05/09/2008;

[Quote user="Quillan"]TomTom recently bought Navteq (they are one of only two companies that supply maps) and yes there are some errors.[/Quote]

Another misquote from your official sources perhaps!

[Quote user="Quillan"]What these questions do show is that obviously squirrel killing is far more important than social and economic situation within the UK and as its the only subject bought up about my post I take it that there is no argument about the rest of it.[/Quote]

No, it shows that if you are going to quote from official sources, you either quote directly from source or get your information correct!

[Quote user="Quillan"]Teachers are a good one, go to the Jobcentre website and do a search, there's only 14 advertised teachers jobs (as of today) within the UK of which 4 are in London/Greater London area and very few of them are for schools.[/Quote]

Do you not think that members of any profession are more than likely to job search through sources applicable to their status? Try a search on TES, you'll find there are 1283 teaching posts advertised as of today.

[Quote user="Bugsy"]History has shown that it is just plain and simple human nature that if someone (anyone) puts themselves on a pedestal, they will suffer the consequences when they fail (make gaffs, or generally f*ck up).[/Quote]

I think the above statement is also applicable nearer home!

[Dick Smith]

Oh Sam, I wish this forum had a Karma button, you just got Exalted!

[Quillan]

Squirrels, OK prove me wrong. After the hint from Dick I did a further search and there are articles it appears in the Guardian, Daily Mail, The Times and the Channel 4 website (although I pointed that out previously) that repeat almost exactly what I have said. I used google to get my these results

At the time of writing about TomTom they were in the process of acquiring Navteq but something shortly after went wrong some other company making a better offer in the final seconds if memory serves and they bought Tele Atlas instead which is the one google uses I think.

Re Teachers, they were used as one of many examples and the object of the exercise was to show that statistics for those seeking work at job centres is not realistic as you have just pointed out, thank you.

Want to expand on your final comment?

[Dick Smith]

Oh dear...

[Salty Sam]

Quillan,

You begin "Squirrels, OK prove me wrong". I'm sorry but I can prove you wrong by the simple fact you're information is incorrect and there is no such legislation which states you need a licence to cull Grey Squirrels. If you Googled to get your results, which in turn led you to the appropriate page on Defra's site, and I'm not interested what the Guardian, Daily Mail, The Times or Channel 4 reported, all I'm asking is for the official source of the information in order you can prove me wrong.

Would it not be too simple a task to place a link to the appropriate page on Defra's website?

With regard to TomTom, Nokia paid 8 Billion USD to acquire Navteq as against the 2.8 Billion USD paid by TomTom to acquire Tele Atlas. TomTom were never in the running to buy Navteq but again, simply place a link to the appropriate page!

Re Teachers, perhaps you should have stated as an example of how statistics may be juggled, "Job Centre Teacher Vacancy stands at xyz, whereas TES currently list abc."

[ali-cat]

I think you are being a little hard on Quillan.  At least he didn't introduce a code of practice to ensure that government statistics were accurate, impartially presented and free from political manipulation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ministers-rebuked-over-knife-crime-figures-1063952.html

Karma has a way of coming round again to bite you on the bum! Perhaps he should change his name to Britney Brown - "Oops I did it again"[:D]

Mr Cat