Greece to hold referendum on EU bailout

[krusty]

The greek prime minister has called a referendum on accepting the second EU bailout package.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8861161/Greece-to-hold-referendum-on-EU-debt-deal.html

[woolybanana]

Well, that should b ugger things right up!

[Nell]

I could not debate the pros and cons of Greece coming out of the Euro as I don't know enough about the consequences either way, but I have not long returned from 2 weeks in Crete and was quite shocked to find it was "hard cash" only, no cards accepted. I got all kinds of excuses - from "Sorry the machine is broken" to "Well it's this crisis you know" ..... The only conclusion I can come to is that the Greek people are lining their own pockets with cash (whilst also charging us 23% Vat!!) and paying no taxes, so the only money the government gets is from the EU, cos they sure as hell aren't collecting any from the shops, restaurants, supermarkets etc... After 30 odd years of holidaying all over Greece, I have just made my last visit!!! Oh and petrol was a few cents shy of 2 euro a litre, which also had to be paid for in cash.

[Russethouse]

 Aren't you being a little harsh ? You might be right but would you give your money to a bank if you din't trust that bank ? Or you thought you may not be able to access the money you were working for. Cash is king.....

[mint]

[quote user="Nell"]I could not debate the pros and cons of Greece coming out of the Euro as I don't know enough about the consequences either way, but I have not long returned from 2 weeks in Crete and was quite shocked to find it was "hard cash" only, no cards accepted. I got all kinds of excuses - from "Sorry the machine is broken" to "Well it's this crisis you know" ..... The only conclusion I can come to is that the Greek people are lining their own pockets with cash (whilst also charging us 23% Vat!!) and paying no taxes, so the only money the government gets is from the EU, cos they sure as hell aren't collecting any from the shops, restaurants, supermarkets etc... After 30 odd years of holidaying all over Greece, I have just made my last visit!!! Oh and petrol was a few cents shy of 2 euro a litre, which also had to be paid for in cash.[/quote]

Hm....interesting, Nell!  Doesn't need much imagination to work out where all that VAT money goes![+o(]

[Frederick]

And there are the buildings occupied that have been left with reinforcing steel sticking out of walls. This to show that they are still under construction as tax applies when the building is finished ! A bunch of self serving cheats and I have no sympathy for them

[woolybanana]

The Greek people are only doing what governments have allowed them to get away with, for a long time. And now, they are probably thoroughly fed up with being kicked  from pillar to post by German rectitude (which in itself is something of a con trick), and of whose behaviour some years ago they do not have fond memories. Frankly, I don't blame them.

The euro was and is a con trick into which they were drawn by their politicians with a load of propaganda, read lies, which is now unravelling and they are having to sacrifice their futures for it. My guess is that there will be a big NO in any referendum, followed by a default and withdrawal from the euro. Whether that causes a domino effect remains to be seen.

[Benjamin]

Dominoes?

I noticed a piece on a news programme whereby Portugal is already questioning some of the terms under which it's last bail-out was granted.

[powerdesal]

Having never visited Greece, apart from staging through Athens Airport, and being a non-whizzkid when it comes to understanding the ins and outs of International finance I am somewhat confused.

My simplistic understanding of the Greece / Euro situation is this:-

The Greek government have borrowed lots of money from various European banks and now can't repay the loans, the banks therefore have a problem. If a private individual or Company borrow from a bank and can't repay then they go bust and the bank loses its money. Why is it it different for Greece Ltd ?

Why should the loss to the banks lead to a collapse of the Euro or the collapse of a bank ( or three)?. The banks don't actually have the money, they are just not going to get it back.

If a bank goes 'bust' what is it likely to mean to me as an ordinary person with cash on deposit ? My deposits are covered by Govt guarantees as I don't have more than the maximum.

I can understand that share values will drop but, until I need to cash those shares then it's only a number on paper. Yes, my ''net worth'' will be less but again it's just a snap-shot valuation.

confused it is I am.

[woolybanana]

Think of Greece as an open plughole with a strong vortex, PD, down which unlimited funds can pour and down which other countries and their banking systems could also be pulled.

By the way, has your wife fully recovered?

[Frederick]

This from just part of the acres written in today's papers ....says it all really !

Greece has an absurdly large public sector, filled with employees who enjoy a far higher standard of living than those in the private sector. Many civil servants can retire at 49 on excellent pensions. An unmarried daughter of a state official can inherit his pension when he dies, which both deters marriage and increases public debts. Corruption, waste and mismanagement have been rampant, while paying taxes has been almost a voluntary activity.

Last year, for instance, 34 doctors in Athens claimed to earn less than £9,000 a year, which meant they were exempt from any tax. One dentist reported an annual income of £250.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

Think of Greece as an open plughole with a strong vortex, PD, down which unlimited funds can pour and down which other countries and their banking systems could also be pulled.

By the way, has your wife fully recovered?

[/quote]

As far as we can estimate, the ablation operation was about 80% successful so she will probably need a further intervention after seeing the cardiac consultant in January. It's been a bad year all round so far !!!!!!

[krusty]

Ridiculously, Greek pastry chefs, radio announcers, hairdressers and masseurs in steam baths are among more than 600 professions allowed to retire at 50 (with a state pension of 95 per cent of their last working year’s earnings) — on account of the ‘arduous and perilous’ nature of their work.

http://www.whichoffshore.com/news/greece-pensions

[Quillan]

Most EU countries are struggling with debt, too many years of 'spend now pay later' and the competition between political parties as they come in to power to spend more than the last lot.

The simple answer for all the countries in the EU is simply to 'go bankrupt' or simply put default on their loans. Who's this going to effect, not people living in these countries because the EU as a whole is self sufficient and does most of it's trade within it's self. The sort of major exports tou couuntries outside the EU like high end cars won't be in trouble because every budding millionaire wants one. The only major countries and economies it would hurt the most would be the US and the UK not to mention China but then who cares about China. Think of it, your slate wiped clean in a minute. No more paying the interest on the loans, socialist parties would have so much more money to spend and governments could afford to drop taxes to say 15% like Hong Kong thus stimulating their own economies. [:D]

[woolybanana]

This whole crisis could be sorted in ten minutes if the Germans paid back the €60-90 billion they owe the Greeks, but we have not heard much of that.

[krusty]

Now then Wooly dont forget what Basil said. [Www]

[woolybanana]

Will Greece still have a government to set up this referendum in a few days. All hell seems to be breaking out there.

PD, have PM'd you

[Frederick]

Will the banks have to shut their doors ?

Will people turn up in numbers to get their cash out ?

If you were Greek today .. Where would you want your cash ... In the bank or closer to you ?

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Frederick"]Where would you want your cash ... In the bank or closer to you ?[/quote]

I think your question was answered on page 1 of this thread, but closer seems a comforting word.  [:'(]

[Frederick]

Run on banks risk :

ttp://www.citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/daltons-charlton-greek-crisis-risks-run-on-eurozone-banks/a538845?ref=wealth-manager-latest-news-list

[mint]

Scary article, Frederick:  Italy is too big to fail but also too big to rescue?[:-))]

[krusty]

Wasn't there another "George" who was center of a run on the bank scare years ago. Maybe this "George" is waiting for "Clarence" to show up and sort it out.[;-)]

[krusty]

Greece's Prime Minister has told Sky News the referendum on the the eurozone bailout plan will no longer go ahead - and it was never his intention for it to happen.

"The referendum was never an end in itself," George Papandreou told the cabinet according to statements released by his office.

"We had a dilemma - either true assent or a referendum. I said yesterday, if the assent were there, we would not need a referendum."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/greek-prime-minister-faces-calls-resign-125401711.html

 

Well done Clarence .....you keep your wings.[Www]

[Quillan]

I see George has gone in to the singing business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc

Thought it rather apt really. [:D]

[Quillan]

I don't get this Greek fella, firstly he said he was going to have a referendum, you say him say it on the TV, next you read he never said it and then yesterday (or was it the day before) he said he had decided not to have one now. So their cheated to join the Euro (and the EU knew but let them join anyway) and now all this. Is this man incapable of telling the truth?

I see Italy is in the same place, the population has the money but the government doesn't because the people don't declare it for tax. I was amazed at the naivety of Berlusconi, he said (ad-lib) "I don't understand it, Italians are rich, we have millions of tourists yet we have no money in the treasury". Of course he hasn't because the money is in peoples pockets. Same goes for Greece.