Trapped Miners West Coast New Zealand

[pachapapa]

I have difficulty in restraining my anger at the way this rescue was managed.

But it is some solace that I am not alone.

Quote:

Most families had "lost it", shouting and asking why rescuers had not gone into the mine on Friday night.

Mr Drew said he felt like he had failed his son because he had been unable to protect him.

He accused the mine of being unsafe and said he wanted an inquiry and to see "the truth come out".

.....

Kokshoorn said for days there had been discussion among locals that the safest time to enter a mine was straight after an explosion.

He said the second explosion was "far bigger than the first".

End Quote.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-explosion/4378516/Family-hit-out-at-rescue-operation

[just john]

Is there no 'Mine Professional Association' for these kind of situations? I was surprised to see Police in charge of the operation?

[Weedon]

From reports that I have read and followed on the television since it started it would appear to some of the spokespeople that fundamental errors were made right from the time of the first explosion. 

I understand that a window of opportunity was missed straight after the initial explosion when rescuers might have been able to ascertain whether it was possible to enter the mine. 

One report said that it might be significant that an official union spokesperson has not been seen which could mean that the mine did not have union members active to make sure that safety rules were being adhered to. Furthermore, apparently, safety had been an issue for some time at that mine. 

From what I have read on here, and from what I have followed in the media since first hearing about the explosion, I cannot help thinking that Mr Papa has been correct since his first posting. 

But I am far from having any knowledge about anything to do with stuff below ground although I do have experience of a massive explosion when a fatality occurred.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="just john "]Is there no 'Mine Professional Association' for these kind of situations? I was surprised to see Police in charge of the operation?[/quote]

No! Not even a Department of Mines.   

A post selected from a New Zealand thread currently running more or less sums up the situation.

Quote:

My understanding is that the mining industry qualified mines inspectors
progressively left after the Mines Department was run down and
incorporated in the Ministry of Commerce.  Mines inspectors, such as
they are, are now general health and safety inspectors employed by OSH.
  Qualified?  Who knows.  They were when there was a Mines Department.
Australia manages to have a Mines Department, with mining engineers and
geologists, in every state while we do not have one for the whole
country.  We used to have a first rate School of Mines in Dunedin.  That
has gone and we are left with one mining engineer in the Civil
Engineering Department at Auckland University.  These are not the
circumstances in which the country can expect top quality mines
inspection.  The mine safety fellow who appeared on TV hinted that in
recent years procedures have not kept pace with those in Australia. If
that is the case it may well be due to the lack of a proper Mines
Department. I am not suggesting that the mine was in any way badly run
but I am suggesting that the inspection system is highly suspect.  The
country should have a Chief Mining Engineer, as it used to, to front up
after an accident like this, not a policeman.

[andyh4]

Before starting let me say that I have no experience of mining (well I have been in a few mines, but not working, so that does not count) but that I do have some experience of underground rescue.

PPP I understand and share your emotional need that something should have happened to save these guys, but it is just that, emotional, and emotion has no place in rescue scenarios.

The underground environment, as you know, is extremely hostile at the best of times, forget that for one instant and it will bite; and bite hard.

A rescue that results in the injury of just one member of the team becomes a much more difficult task - one more preson to rescue and one fewer team member to effect the rescue.

I (from an isolated situation news wise)have seen no reports that prospective rescue team have criticised the decision not to enter the mine. That lack of criticism says more than all of the emotional words.

Incidentally I have also experienced a dust explosion and it is not a situation I would recommend to anyone else.

[Salty Sam]

Following on, I caught the end of a radio interview with a consultant mining engineer who emphasised that without actually being there, it is unsafe to pass judgement on what should, or should not have been done.

He stressed that from the images and information to hand, as the ventilation shaft was damaged in the first explosion, he couldn't see how it would have been possible to purge the mine with fresh air allowing safe access for rescue teams. The purging process apparently requires both an inlet and an outlet for the vented air. Even if the shaft itself had been undamaged, any forced air flow entering the mine would be unlikely to ventilate the probable site of where the workers were thought to be located, as the existing ventilation shaft would just act as a duct venting to the outside.

If they had blocked off the ventilation shaft or it was in fact blocked by debris, then it would not be possible to forcibly ventilate unless there was a means of exit for the foul air and gases.  

Apparently the same ventilation shaft had a history of being damaged previously by rockfalls.

The world will have to wait for the result of any subsequent inquiry. 

[Keni]

Unfortunately, none of this discussion is now of help to the families who have lost their partners/sons/brothers. Our thoughts are with them. x

[just john]

The families are having the same discussion it seems . . .

''Geoff Valli, whose brother Keith, 62, is one of the 29 in the mine, told New Zealand radio: "We've go to know, we've got to go and have a look. "I know what I'm asking other guys to do – go and have a look. Around town a lot of guys are prepared to go in and do it. It's time for men to do what men have got to do. They've got to have a crack."

 guardian. new-zealand-mine-

[pachapapa]

Just noticed another expert opinion from the BBC news website. In my opinion Mr Watson is not an expert and most of his evaluation is erroneous or at best mostly conjecture not based on fact; about the only thing he has got right are the % CH4 in the ambient atmosphere and the possible effect. Still it fills space in a newspaper.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11833033

[Salty Sam]

A grim task ahead.

[url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-explosion/4384927/Bodies-should-be-recovered-over-time[/url]

[pachapapa]

No great hurry now. The results of blast lung B.L.I are ugly in mine explosions; particularly where the victim has had an explosive mixture in his lungs.

Probably best to seal it up and erect some sort of memorial.

[pachapapa]

The memorial service is tomorrow.

Whilst the press continues to criticise the operation.

It comes as criticism of the police operation grows. An Australian-based online mining journal today called for New Zealand police to be blocked from controlling mine rescues.

''What I never want to see again is a disaster of the Pike River mine's magnitude being controlled by the police...and not the people trained and skilled in mine rescue,'' nzresources.com editor Ross Louthean said in an editorial headed: ''Mine rescue must not remain with Mr Plod''.

Another Australian journalist - from a daily newspaper - caused a stir during the rescue bid by asking at a press conference why the rescue was being overseen by a "local country cop".

Louthean today said he had been ''astounded'' police were in charge and making it known what could and could not happen.

''Discussing this with Australian mining colleagues, their view was stronger, suggesting it may hinder saving lives,'' he said

Extract from Louthean's Editorial:

* The best time to rescue or recover is supposed to be immediately after a mine blast, and mines have trained teams and so do nearby mines. The methane has dispersed significantly and, with the right apparatus and gear, a team may consider it the best time to go down. They are aware of risks and may not proceed, but when a police organisation puts a halt to that and awaits orders from Wellington (my understanding, some issues took up to 10 hours and even involved legal declaration) then this is bureaucratic bumbling and a misuse of powers at its worst.

* Miners, drillers and consultants came in from all over NZ to help but instead of being able to simply proceed under the direction of the mine rescue teams they were subject to even more red tape, even involving the Department of Conservation procedures and trees. One drilling outfit was livid about the procedure when time and time alone was the issue.

Despite the well meaning issue of using procedures, there may well come out of the inquiries greater power may be vested in Wellington bureaucracies that should be listening to people skilled in mine rescues and retrievals, not dictating to them.

Unless that process is changed then lives may be lost, so the NZ mining industry and the mining union need to make compelling submissions. Resources and Energy Minister Gerry Brownlee, who cancelled all engagements to spend a harrowing week with the people of Pike River and Greymouth, will need to support the giving back of rescue powers to mining industry.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="DerekJ"]papachapa, why don't you catch the next available flight out there and show them how to do it. I'm sure they will be eternally grateful to you for sharing your wisdom.

You could put on the  Draegers and lead them down.
[/quote]

The Pike River Mine was placed in receivership this morning with PriceWaterhouse; the miners families are unlikely now to receive any compensation, even their final month severance payment for the employees not directly involved in the disaster.

Thank goodness I did not get on a plane and go there to advise......eternal gratefulness doesn't keep the wolf from the door....I could have been stuck in New Zealand as an illegal immigrant with no funds for the return journey.

The mine was poorly designed as a methane trap, a time bomb waiting for an explosion.

[pachapapa]

An engineer gives a considered opinion on 21/01/2011 on the lack of safety support at the Pike River colliery. The police have finally given up with the GAG unit after using it in an extraordinarily ineffective way. The final two paragraphs are indicative of the complete hoplessness of the New Zealanders; Feickert slates Prime Minister; Prime Minister passes responsibility to the Police. Personally I think Homer Simpson would have done better.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/4566442/Canned-system-would-have-stopped-mine-disaster

[pachapapa]

The Disaster Enquiry  trundles on as the magnitude of the incompetence is revealed in testimony.

The opinion of the General Manager of the New Zealand Mines Rescue Service is of interest vis à vis the approval for full operation of a "non compliant " mine.

It would seem fair to me that the Department of Labour Mine Inspectors had a vested interest in delaying the sealing of the mine to conceal their incompetence.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5660620/Pike-River-Devastating-details-in-testimony

 

[Frecossais]

I hope they throw the book at the management.

[pachapapa]

The Pike River Mine Manager faces 12 criminal charges under New Zealand Health and Safety legislation.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5951671/Pike-River-chief-faces-12-charges-after-blast

Advice that charges would be preferred on three parties had been announced earlier on the 5th instant without the parties being identified.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5947262/Pike-River-families-find-reassurance-in-charges

The testimony of a japanese national is pertinent.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pike-river-mine-disaster/5924643/Mining-expert-frightened-by-Pike-River-mine

[pachapapa]

The BBC today reports on the damages settlement resulting from the death of 29 persons in a methane explosion.

This accident happened before the disaster in New Zealand subject of the thread with coincidentally the same number killed.

In the West Virginia mine the GAG equipment ( jet engine )  was used allowing the fire to be extinguished, the bodies recovered and the mine reopened.

The Massey Energy Company and its operations were part of the Fluor Corp operations until spun off in 2000, subsequent to the fatal accident the company was acquired by Alpha Natural Resources. As a result of earlier employee share options exercised and held I have kept in touch with the company and it's problems via the quarterly and annual reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16059159