in the wake of Deal or No Deal and Yesterday in Parliament

[Patf]

"We're lucky they still support it, especially considering the alternatives.

I'm very glad it is surviving."

I've sometimes thought that too, nomoss.

[Grecian]

Sorry mate I'm looking for facts and for verification and all you offer

is "it's obvious", it may be to you, but not to lots of others, me

included.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/16/brexit-is-a-business-bankrupter-small-firms-brace-for-no-deal

No doubt this is project fear as well.

[Alan Zoff]

Saying that we should decide the matter in a second referendum would be just as irresponsible as was Cameron's stupid promise to abide by the first one. In common with other constitutional democracies, Britain's laws are made by Parliament. As the late Stephen Hawking pointed out, some matters are far too complex to leave to the man in the street to decide, whether a Remainer or a Leaver. (Even Dominic Raab, the former Brexit Secretary, admitted that he had not understood the implications for the Port of Dover!)

The democratic way to proceed is for the elected representatives of the people (MPs) to take note of the feeling expressed by the electorate but to make the decision themselves after careful analysis of expert advice. That's how a modern democracy works.

So rather than agonise over another referendum - and then what to do in response to that result - the government should have the balls to let Parliament decide what a majority of MPs think is best for the country. If that means withdrawing Article 50 and remaining in the EU, so be it. A lot of people would be upset but a lot of people are always upset by government decisions. The duty of Parliament is to use its best endeavours to look after the interests of the whole country, not pass the buck to the electorate.

[PaulT]

NickP seems obvious to the businessman in the article that Grecian quotes......sadly, it will be obvious to his UK employees that they are out of a job.

[NickP]

Yeh sure if you say so.

[NickP]

"Nick, let me ask you a question:

You are living in France and you have decided to buy a new car and settled on a Nissan produced in Co Durham.

I don't live in France

[mint]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]Saying that we should decide the matter in a second referendum would be just as irresponsible as was Cameron's stupid promise to abide by the first one. In common with other constitutional democracies, Britain's laws are made by Parliament. As the late Stephen Hawking pointed out, some matters are far too complex to leave to the man in the street to decide, whether a Remainer or a Leaver. (Even Dominic Raab, the former Brexit Secretary, admitted that he had not understood the implications for the Port of Dover!)

The democratic way to proceed is for the elected representatives of the people (MPs) to take note of the feeling expressed by the electorate but to make the decision themselves after careful analysis of expert advice. That's how a modern democracy works.

So rather than agonise over another referendum - and then what to do in response to that result - the government should have the balls to let Parliament decide what a majority of MPs think is best for the country. If that means withdrawing Article 50 and remaining in the EU, so be it. A lot of people would be upset but a lot of people are always upset by government decisions. The duty of Parliament is to use its best endeavours to look after the interests of the whole country, not pass the buck to the electorate.[/quote]

AZ, you are absolutely correct about how representative government (UK system) should work.  But, alas, we now have politicians that will not and cannot do that which they are elected to do.

The majority are wishy-wasy, no moral fibre and no guiding principles.  Don't know where we lost our way...........[:(]

[NickP]

"I really do find it so bizarre that people can say that they actually "loathe" the EU or are so convinced that just leaving would not create massive problems. "

I never said I loathe the EU. I merely challenged the guesswork from unreliable sources. Still, you believe what you want.

[DerekJ]

[quote user="mint"]

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]Saying that we should decide the matter in a second referendum would be just as irresponsible as was Cameron's stupid promise to abide by the first one. In common with other constitutional democracies, Britain's laws are made by Parliament. As the late Stephen Hawking pointed out, some matters are far too complex to leave to the man in the street to decide, whether a Remainer or a Leaver. (Even Dominic Raab, the former Brexit Secretary, admitted that he had not understood the implications for the Port of Dover!)

The democratic way to proceed is for the elected representatives of the people (MPs) to take note of the feeling expressed by the electorate but to make the decision themselves after careful analysis of expert advice. That's how a modern democracy works.

So rather than agonise over another referendum - and then what to do in response to that result - the government should have the balls to let Parliament decide what a majority of MPs think is best for the country. If that means withdrawing Article 50 and remaining in the EU, so be it. A lot of people would be upset but a lot of people are always upset by government decisions. The duty of Parliament is to use its best endeavours to look after the interests of the whole country, not pass the buck to the electorate.[/quote]

AZ, you are absolutely correct about how representative government (UK system) should work.  But, alas, we now have politicians that will not and cannot do that which they are elected to do.

The majority are wishy-wasy, no moral fibre and no guiding principles.  Don't know where we lost our way...........[:(]

[/quote]

I absolutely agree with AZ in principle... that's how it should work. However, given the track record of the current bunch (both parties) I wouldn't trust them or their judgement and principles one bit.

[mint]

Derek, with you on that.  Can't trust any of the current ones (with a few honorable exceptions but I am not even sure which ones those would be)!