Price differences UK and France

[chessie]

OK - I just get sick and tired of some posters always having 'a pop' at the UK in really nasty, spiteful tones as though they actually hate the UK and the UK people.

Johnsons plane - or OUR UK plane - is second-hand - it's been USED - it's NOT new.   It's an air force plane which has had a small paint job which, incidentally, provided work for people and kept some in employment.  That's bad ?

As for the cost - that's b---y peanuts compared to the millions and millions thrown at people to be furloughed with companies, and some very high profile 'celebs' taking the tax payers money under false pretences.   On top of which millions for teachers who haven't been teaching, and don't even want to go back to their jobs in September because they are 'frit' - stupid little snowflakes no brighter than the infants they teach.

The school meals issue is something blown up out of all proportion - there weren't many; parents being paid to stay at home with time to COOK PROPER MEALS = and then they need even more money from the tax payer.   Get on with you.

As for the fiddling Fillons - no comments then ?

Or the other shady aspects of previous french pm's then ?

Or the Macron with his wife ?

The french president ordered 3 NEW planes - THREE of them in 2019 - bet you'd not criticise that would you ?

As for the dumpy little german hausfrau she's also ordered new planes back in 2018/19 - any criticism from you about that ?

As for MY taxes, and MY vat - I have family in the UK and I'd much prefer any additional taxes I have to pay to end up in the UK rather than here.   I prefer to put my family - and my country - first.

What I find so nasty is the personal, spiteful offensive comments about a British PM who had a very close call healthwise; and offensive insults about the UK and its people.

Fine, criticise the UK - but be prepared for criticisms to be made of France - which isn't perfect, which has also not been perfect in its handling of this chinese virus crisis.

But how about this - Macron is such a tiny bloke that we all know he wears built-up shoes; and has had a mother complex since he was 12 - what that says about his own mother I really do wonder.

The little dumpy german housefrau is a 'commie' in disguise - check out her background - should she even be the German chancellor ?

You see - you want to hurl personal, nasty, offensive stuff about political leaders - others can come straight back at you.

None of them's perfect - but personal insults go beyond acceptable.

Chessie

[Kong]

The vitriol floweth.

[EuroTr@sh]

Wow Chessie.

Where in this thread has anyone refused to hear criticism about France and French leaders? I can't see where anyone said France is perfect. There's nothing wrong with criticism as long as it's justified.

I'm actually living in the UK right now, I don't hate it but I feel it's an unhappy and divided place, with a government that is exceptionally weak and making itself seem worse than it perhaps really is because its messaging is consistently so off-key. Hence my comment about the bad timing. It's not how much the paint job cost, it's the perception that in the middle of a crisis when the government should be "doing whatever it takes" to "put its arms around the nation", it is actually thinking about painting its plane...

I see from another thread that you feel you are far better off living in France, please don't poison your life with all this bile.

[chessie]

Your perspective on how life is in the UK at the moment is interesting - and sad. 

Nope - not full of bile at all.   It was only a very robust riposte to someone who had made extremely offensive comments about the uk's PM... that's all.

All I did was make similar rude comments about other eu leaders; shouldn't have descended to that poster's level, but just pointing out it works both ways....!!

I recognise there's good, and bad, in France; same as UK - all governments have made a hash of dealing with this chinese virus - because none of them really knew what they were dealing with, how to cope with it - and how to do the best for their own people.

I thought BJ's response - the hand-clapping for the NHS - considering how ill he was, and his subsequent recovery was 'putting his arms round the people' - what would you have him do ?

His government has effectively given workers 6 months paid holiday - wasn't that right ?

There's no bile here, no vitriol - just strong comments from someone who is fed up of the constant drip, drip, drip of criticisms from people who, with hindsight and no power - know, or think, they could have done better.

No government knew, and no government got it right, and no government was perfect.

But then life isn't perfect.......

Chessie (who does still enjoy her life in France, despite other probs)

[EuroTr@sh]

"I thought BJ's response - the hand-clapping for the NHS - considering how ill he was, and his subsequent recovery was 'putting his arms round the people' - what would you have him do ?"

I would have preferred the government to do something more constructive for the NHS than clapping (which wasn't his idea). For instance, Patel was asked to acknowledge the contribution of health workers from overseas by waiving the substantial visa fee they have to pay each year for the privilege of living here and risking their own lives to save British lives. She initially refused, and Johnson backed her refusal in parliament, then about a month ago she was forced into an apparent U-turn, but she hasn't taken action and as of this week those health workers are still required to pay. There was a question about this recently and the government appeared surprised to discover that it was still charging the fee.

Certainly a lot of money has been spent on furlough schemes etc but it hasn't been well managed. There has undoubtedly been fraud, and money has been pocketed by people who don't need it and aren't entitled to it while those who do need it, aren't eligible. By a quirk of circumstances I was invited to claim money as a self employed person, and all I had to do to get it was to sign a form saying that to the best of my knowledge I was entitled to it. I didn't claim it because I know I'm not (on paper I am because I moved back here during the last tax year to take up employment, having been self employed in France for most of it, so they have me down as living in the UK last year and self employed for over a year). But self employed people who started their businesses less than a year ago aren't entitled to a penny. (For the record I've lost my job and am receiving no support but I'm not bitter about that, there are many worse off than me.)

I don't know how closely you follow events in the UK but the government is leeching trust, there are endless reports of major contracts bypassing the tender process and being handed to incompetent operators who happen to be Tory donors, Johnson lies blatantly when asked awkward questions (twice he's stated that there will be no borders or trade barriers either between the UK and Northern Ireland or on the island). Of course no government was perfect, but some are brave enough to transparent, accept scrutiny and accept responsibility, while others don't. Johnson's government is very defensive, it avoids scrutiny, it seems to have no coherent plan and keeps insisting that what it's doing is "world-beating" when quite obviously it's not. Right now everybody is waiting to see what happens when pubs open for the first time in months on a Saturday night of all nights to choose. Johnson is relying on people being sensible and observing social distancing and restraint on the day that he himself called Super Saturday. How likely is that?

EDIT - I literally just read this comment from an RCN spokesperson: "“They do not need more warm words and praise that, to many, is already beginning to feel hollow. An earlier pay rise will go some way to showing the Government values all they do, not just this year but day in, day out.”

[idun]

 Eurotrash, did you not feel as if France was 'divided'? I always felt that.  And I don't feel like the UK is suffering division at the moment. Many of us are simply relieved that Corbyn was not made PM.

And the french government, well, is it truly less shady in it's dealings than it used to be?

All my very long time in France, there were things that upset me enormously, especially the disparity between say the fonctionnaires and the rich........ and the rest of the population.

And those in dire straights, well, it used to be horrific, there was no safety net, so things have improved somewhat, but being poor in France is a very hard life. Yes, it is everywhere, but France has no exemption from this sad state of affairs.

[EuroTr@sh]

Yes of course France is divided otherwise the gilets jaunes protest wouldn't have happened.

Governments everywhere have a tough job I know. I respected Corbyn insofar as I think he was sincere in his misguidedness. In normal times his policies would probably have led to disaster, but now that disaster has happened anyway I don't know, he might have been the better PM to lead us out of it.. Policies very similar to what he proposed seem to now be being proposed by the government.

What I respect in Macron is his ability to put together an effective government (yes I know Edouard Philippe may be leaving post) and deliver a coherent message in a statesmanlike way. Johnson doesn't appear to have managed either of those things.

I'm not really a political animal. I didn't vote in the referendum because I wasn't living in the UK and I felt it was a matter for the UK to decide, but on principle I wasn't anti-Brexit because I actually thought that being outside the EU would very possible be better for the UK than being inside it. I always liked to think I wasn't prejudiced against any party or any person. But, I've somehow turned very anti-Johnson. Maybe my perception is biased because I was working in the tourism industry and prior to Covid there was an immense amount of anxiety about how Brexit was going to impact on the company next season, and it was impossible to get clarity or advice. Also, I'm now in Wales and there's been a lot of frustration here about the way people living in England weren't given a clear message that when Johnson relaxes measures there, it doesn't mean that Wales has also relaxed them and they can now visit Wales. And I don't think you can say that the pro and anti Brexit divide has gone away. So, that's my perception, and I realise that once you lose confidence it snowballs because you pick up on negative things. If you have confidence I guess that also snowballs and you pick up on postive things. But there's enough negative signs that I have a bad feeling about the way it's headed, what with ministers apparently being chosen for their Brexit stance rather than for their ability and experience, civil servants being replaced by politicians, a special adviser that seems to exert more power than any special adviser should, a government and a PM that won't answer a straight question, and less and less scrutiny of the Cabinet even by the HoC.

That may sound like UK bashing but really, it's more of a howl of despair. I think the UK deserves better. Whether Macron or Mutti or any other leader is better or not I don't know and that's not the point, I'm not interested in arguing over who has the least worst leader. I just wish we all had good ones.