Keeping the kids out of the loop

[Teamedup]

As most of us have been brought up to the idea of communaute universelle, we want it. It seems right, feels right, that idea that if one of us goes, well let's be honest, when one of us goes, as that is the nature of life (and death) that everything goes to the one that is left and the kids get any inheritance later.

In France it isn't fundamentally like that, for all the family problems there have been in the past with regards to this and I imagine some families are still going through and there will be in the future, the children are considered as the rightful heirs to each parents biens.

Effectually by coming here and doing a communaute universal the children are being kept out of the loop and will end up with hefty taxes upon the death of the second parent. If parents remain together.

 

However, I was wondering if any of you have actually been a victim of being 'out of the loop'. We have, we know people that have. And IF one's parent dies and their spouse is not your parent then under the british system (is it different in Scotland?) then unless provision is made for you then when your step father/mother dies then their family gets everything. Which may be fair enough if the step mother/father actually owned everything to start with, but if your own parent had been the major provider of property and income in general, then I must say that it feels bad. A lack of love really on behalf of the parent who passed away, a usually loving parent has become negligent. And maybe it was already the parent you had lost previously who had earned that inheritance anyway. And in the UK one can do nothing about it. But I think that IF I had been in that situation here, then I may well have done something, I can't say for positive I would, but when one remembers all those conversations about getting that now deceased parents affairs sorted out and them saying that they would, but never quite got around to it, maybe I would have just reclaimed my right as a child here.

 

As a child, a grown up child, but never the less a child, all I can say is  don't forget your own children in your rush to avoid these 'horrible' french laws that seem so unfair. Do your new spouses kids deserve everything more than your own kids? or does their family, if they have no children.

 

And even if your kids don't need the money, then there are always grandkids to think of in most families.

 

 

 

[Iceni]

I have read this and reread this with disbelief. Firstly, I lost my inheritance when a will was 'lost'. This was 'lost' by a Chief Detective Inspector of the CID so although I had a copy I was not able to pursue it. As I have got older I have realised that what is mine is MINE and in a way he was looking after what my mother would not have had if she had not married him.

Before you think I have done very little for my children, lets just take a look:

Severely disabled daughter who needed 24 hour care, hospital visits, etc, etc and also having to watch a marriage dissolve as her father went to South America as he could not cope, I had no choice - financial impact on me, disaster. She is now able to live on her own with care - mainly put down to the way I brought her up.

Son who I saw through Uni and who now earns more than I can imagine and owns multiple properties - I have not asked him to look after me, so why should he expect me to save and scrimp to leave him anything.

Another son who has inheritance already sorted.

Why should I have to have the responsibility to support these adults after my death and why should lack of inheritance show that I did not love them, anyone who had brought a child up to adulthood shows their love, if you need money as well I feel very sorry for you.

My main aim is to make what little we have stretch so that we have a reasonable life to the end of our days, we already have to be careful and when the time comes will sell our property and hopefully both or one of us can live on what is there.

The time to support your children is when they need it. Some UK families are remortgaging so that their children can get on the housing ladder, why should these children also expect to inherit money/property, don't the parents have any rights to spend their money as and when they want.

The new acronym is SKIERS - spending the kids inheritance. Those that are lucky to have money should be able to spend it as they want - the fact that that is not so easy in France is a problem but those in the UK, good luck to them, they brought their children up, they went through the years of struggle to give their children/young adults a good life, let them have the life they now deserve.

I like the US bumper sticker - 'get even - DIE IN DEBT'.

[Teamedup]

How sad, so who would say that about their kids 'get even, die in debt'. When were we ever in competition with our own children?

Everything else is cultural differences. In France people protect their blood line. That is what people do in spite of it going awry sometimes. Is this an example of those good french family values at work. It works both ways too, the government will not hesitate to contact children and grandchildren to pay for a parent/grandparent's care if they have not the means to do this themselves.

I still stick by my original post. It isn't nice being left out of the loop. I'm not talking fortunes, unimagineable to me as I'm from a working class family, it can all get far more basic than that. Just making out a communaute universelle can mean that some stranger can end up chucking the family photos and any odd bits of family history because a parent hasn't sorted everything out  properly. 

There are some things one can't put a value on and yet they do have great sentimental value and  are certainly part of the patrimoine and biens............ "Well I would show you a photo of your great grandmother, or me and your uncle as children, only your grandmother didn't sort her affairs out and her second husband's sister/kids/whoever threw them out."

Yes, there are financial aspects to sorting one's affairs out in most cases, but a life is more than just the money too. 

[Dick Smith]

TU wrote: "How sad, so who would say that about their kids 'get even, die in debt'. When were we ever in competition with our own children?"

I think it may be a joke...

[Iceni]

[quote]TU wrote: "How sad, so who would say that about their kids 'get even, die in debt'. When were we ever in competition with our own children?"I think it may be a joke...[/quote]

Ah, I have been found out -

[Cecilcaterpillar]

this topic has sparked some thoughts into my own inheritance, I apologise that it is not french inheritance.  My mother died when I was young and I was wondering what would happen automatically to my grandparents 'pot', when they die, assuming they don't specify.  Would my uncle get the whole pot as the remaining child of my grandparents? or would it get shared between him, me and my brother.  In this case do grandchildren need to pay inheritance tax?

I could also fall foul of my dad's inheritance too, as he remarried and had further children.  If he died first then my step mum, would my half brother and siater automatically get the inheritance? again I presume this would pose the issue of tax as well.

Is there any way of getting around this, I get on well with my step mum and have always regarded her as my mum so the issue could be approached, although there would not be a huge sum to be left.  It would be more difficult with my grandparents.

cheers:- Cecil

[JohnM]

It's not just money though. I know of a (UK) situation where most of the money / property was left to the new wife (In my terms it was a fortune). The kids didn't baulk at that particularly, but they wanted some of the "things". Even though she didn't want many of these things (as they held no memories), she grumbled that "The Vultures" had been round, so they backed off and later bought back many of the things they wanted from the charity shop.

 

[Iceni]

Not that long ago when a woman got married she gave her 'hand' - what she actually gave was all her assets and she could only stand and watch as her husband did what he liked with it - they changed the law. To me the inheritance of parents/family money is about as antiquated. We all have our chance to make our own way in the world. The only time I have ever seen real falling out in families is over inheritance.

Come on, give your children and family the best you can while they are in need and then use your own money when you need it, when your options of earning more have gone out the window.

On the non-French inheritance thing, the grandparents can leave it to who they like, and where there are children from multiple marriages - well, who knows who will get what.

A very very personal opinion.

 

[Redcap]

I'm divorced & remarried, so the way I see it is that my kids now have 2 bites of the cherry.  They have their mother who owns a house and has her own assets (mostly proceeds from divorce! oops sorry!)  So they inherit twice, that would not happen if we had stayed together, so they will not do too bad.

Regards,

Bob (who's daughter waited until he reitires from police, before announcing her wedding!!! I wonder why!)

[Mlonghurst]

This may sound very hard but I am afraid its true. 

I have never expected any inheritance from my parents, or their parents.  I firmly believe that I have no god given right to expect anything from them.  They spent 17 hard years teaching me and my 6 brothers to stand on our own two feet.  My parents worked hard and gave me the gift of life and love as they worked hard to bring me up as a decent person.  Should I expect as a right that they should leave me money or property when they die.  NO. Absolutly not.  I would rather they spent their hard earned money enjoying their remaining years in what ever manner they wish and if that lifestyle leaves nothing for myself and my brothers at the end of it then so be it.    My parents will have left me the best inheritance that I could have wished for, Life.  Also a willingness and ability to stand on my own two feet and build my own wealth if I should so wish. 

Do or should my children have a god given right to inherit what I have when I die.  NO.  That decission should be left to me, I am the one who worked hard for what I have and I should decide who benefits from it when I die. 

A few years ago, my mother won a sum of money (not a fortune) and asked if I would like some of it.  I told her to go out and enjoy it whilst she can and that I have years ahead of me to make my fortune or not.

Sorry for ranting, but some attitudes amaze me.  (any very wealthy people with no children living in France looking to adopt a middle aged (in years only) male please PM me).

 

Regards,  Mike L

[Mlonghurst]

This may sound very hard but I am afraid its true. 

I have never expected any inheritance from my parents, or their parents.  I firmly believe that I have no god given right to expect anything from them.  They spent 17 hard years teaching me and my 6 brothers to stand on our own two feet.  My parents worked hard and gave me the gift of life and love as they worked hard to bring me up as a decent person.  Should I expect as a right that they should leave me money or property when they die.  NO. Absolutly not.  I would rather they spent their hard earned money enjoying their remaining years in what ever manner they wish and if that lifestyle leaves nothing for myself and my brothers at the end of it then so be it.    My parents will have left me the best inheritance that I could have wished for, Life.  Also a willingness and ability to stand on my own two feet and build my own wealth if I should so wish. 

Do or should my children have a god given right to inherit what I have when I die.  NO.  That decission should be left to me, I am the one who worked hard for what I have and I should decide who benefits from it when I die. 

A few years ago, my mother won a sum of money (not a fortune) and asked if I would like some of it.  I told her to go out and enjoy it whilst she can and that I have years ahead of me to make my fortune or not.

Sorry for ranting, but some attitudes amaze me.  (any very wealthy people with no children living in France looking to adopt a middle aged (in years only) male please PM me).

 

Regards,  Mike L

[Teamedup]

I 'm not sure if you have missed the point or not........... "wealthy,with no kids willing to adopt you." So you do know how it works in France.

And this board is Living France and the french way is to pass whatever one has onto the kids. If one does 'nothing' then the kids get it, the spouse is not a blood relative, the kids are. Spouses have only recently been afforded some  protection. And I don't know of one french family that would dream of doing a communaute universelle. I have mentioned it and no one I know thinks it is a good idea and the thought of the Perception getting even more than they need goes absolutely against the grain.

 

I'm not after my parents money. I don't believe that my kids are after mine. But my goodness, I will make sure that if I go first that my kids will have access to the family photos and what ever else they want after we have gone. There may be some money, I don't know, but any money and the rest of what I can leave them will be for them to decide whether to keep or not and not some stranger to spend the money or chuck what appears to be rubbish and of no value.

Two bites of the cherry was mentioned. Well if a couple with kids  divorce and then one or both parents remarry, under english law at least, unless they really have sorted their affairs out then their kids wouldn't even see the stone, never mind a cherry.

 

And you are right, some attitudes amaze me too. In this, I am much more aleze with my french friends than on here. I see so much on here about, move to France for a better life (what ever that means), then those french family values are brought up too, well this is one of those family values and it is very close to the hearts of everyone I know.

 

[Iceni]

Teamedup

I don't know why you even brought the subject up. You are going back to the UK were you can leave the whole lot to the dog if you want. Some of us think that having done the best for our children, while we live, what is ours is ours. I am the holder of the family photo's and will pass them on to my son in good time. I have already given the family heirlooms to my children, they do not have to wait until I die to get what they want from me and they were not exactly cheap items. I can at least see my children enjoying what has been passed down in my family for years. This is the way round the problem, give the children the stuff NOW.

If the French are really so bothered that all they can think about is leaving everything to their children, that does go some way to explain why some are stuck in loveless marriages. Life is for living and helping your children to live full, wonderful, happy lives where they make their own way and own fortune.

I agree with Mike L. Sorry Mike, have just enough for John & I and 4 chucks.

[Coral]

A very interesting thread.

It's not only the children but the family as a whole that potential French residents have to think about.

When my father died in the UK, of course  all the pennies went to my mother. But when she died I was on the other side of the world and the only memories I have are two snap shots.  Even my violin and my clothes that she had been keeping disappeared.

About 15 years ago my husband's brother tried to take charge of his mother's finances - she shouted for help and my husband rescued the situation.  Result brothers never spoke again.

When she died at the age of 94 she left her money to 'Inconsiderate Greedy-pig' and her bungalow to my husband.  She was being very fair as she knew we did not have a home in UK and it prevented a fight.  Six months later my husband died.  I have no children.  

If we had been resident in France I think I could have been in deep mer**.