Get a new life

[Will]

Did anybody see the BBC2 programme yesterday (Sun 22 Aug) evening?

It focused on a couple with four kids from the Chesterfield area who wanted to move to Brittany, getting temporary work to enable them to exist while finding and setting up a B&B, campsite or similar business - sound at all familiar? Both parents, having holidayed there, thought they had sufficient French.

For those who may not be familiar with the programme, the format is that the BBC lays on the services of a couple of relocation consultants who find the family somewhere to rent and advise them on job seeking, schools etc. The BBC covers the first month's basic living expenses. At the end of the month the consultants return to see whether the family has been able to start the wheels in motion to be able to stay, funding themselves, or to return to their old life.

We saw the familiar things, most notably the 'sufficient' French proving totally inadequate for even the most basic of everyday needs. The kids varied widely in their acceptance of the new country and the new schools - it was the kids who apprently were keenest to go at first, got very worried when it was actually going to happen, but in the end adapted best. We saw the couple dealing with ANPE and ASSEDIC (with and without the help of an interpreter) and their attempts to find a property suitable for their business ideas (the estate agent they were dealing with was a bit of an eye opener, but then we are a bit biased). The agent's choice was turned down flat "because her lounge furniture wouldn't fit", and of the others they saw, one, which looked ideal, was sold to somebody else by the time they had decided, while another got taken off the market (perhaps fortunately, thinking of the couple's plans, allegedly backed by the Maire, for a hostel for migrant abbatoir workers) because the vendor wanted to sell it to a relative instead.

It was obviously recorded last year, because we saw the attempts to get a carte de sejour (turned down initially because they only had an E111 rather than the proper documents from Newcastle).

The message came across strongly - don't even consider getting a job in the French system unless you can converse in the language.

At the end it did look as if, for once, we might have a family who actually took advantage of the offer of a return ticket. But no, the rose tint had not worn off the specs in that month.

I remain undeceided as to whether the dose of reality offered by the programme was a good or bad thing in terms of influencing the sort of people who want to move to France for dubious reasons without doing comprehensive homework. We certainly saw some evidence of the programme makers trying to dramatise things and make the participants look daft, which may or may not have been deserved. However I fear that the final message, that even these people can stay and make a go of things, may continue to encourage the would-be Brit-market gite millionaires.

The programme was set in the Dinan area - it would be interesting to get a reaction from those who know the tourist market in that region. Over to you Miki?

Will (50)
Forum moderator

[Tink]

I live in Dinan for over 2 years now. Did see the program and thought it was very much close to the truth. For the kind of money they could spend on a property you don't get a whole lot in Dinan, the prices have risen horribly in the last 2 years.

I think it was a mistake for them to settle in the small village, they should have rented a house in Dinan itself. Living in larger town provides better integration and opportunities if you have a language barrier. They spend a whole lot of time driving the children around to their different schools which would be a problem if one of them would have found a job or got sick, because the woman couldn't drive.

Having been in that same position as well, I know it will become a problem if you do not have decent public transport. You will become very isolated.

What they didn't show was the strain British children put on the French school system. Children who do not speak the language at all need special education and schools are struggling to keep up with costs of the large stream of those children who turn up at school

Dinan is touristy all year round and is close enough to St.Malo(15/20 minutes) to offer an overnight stop for those coming or going to the ferries. So as far as their plan goes to open a B&B it should have worked. However it's my personal opinion that having a B&B is a profession, especially if you need to provide a meal as well. It takes some experience the hospitality industry to know what it takes to cater to tourists. It's good to see the CdM is taking a more active role towards people who want to open up a B&B.

What I didn't see with this couple was a thought through plan, a goal for their future. They had no idea of how to start and what it takes to successfully run a B&B. You need to have people skills, pr skills, and most of all you need to have knowledge of the area and the French language.

I think the BBC did a good job with this particular 'Get a new life'. it gave a good idea of how difficult it is if you come unprepared and don't speak the language. As far as I know the family returned to the UK a while ago.

--

Tink (22)

[Miki]

Bill,

I find this is a tough one to answer.

One half of me says let people try and good luck to them and the other half, that has witnessed the heartaches and grief due to seeing families having to go home with very little money, to even less than they left the UK, before arriving here.

They are still about, according to another forum, having moved a little more to the centre of Brittany. The Dinan area (as Tink stated and by the way it is the C de Com that deals with B&B's if you wish to register) is more expensive, so no, there was no way they were going to be able to buy something for under £250K to enable a family of 6 to live comfortably off.

Didn't they say they had £90k to spend on a business? What chance of that around Dinan !

And as for buying a campsite for anything less than £300k with a big enough turnover to support them, forget it. Did they not look on the net or ask Estate agents about prices before they left the UK?

Funny enough, they had all the right atributes to get on really, complete faith in themselves and blissfully unaware of what was needed for everyday living in France. The E111 was a fine example!

It only goes to prove that to really be on top of things on arrival here, one needs to do your homework and a good start for many, is perhaps, looking through this forum.

I really do put a lot of the blame with the programme makers for the way they tell the "clients" that they have 4 weeks to prepare for one of the biggest moves they will ever make. They take  the people away from their homes, still mostly unsold, what severe pressure that does that put on you?

Then they barely know any more than the family do about their new life, which goes to show just how much they care for their victims, whoops sorry, clients. It is just about making a programme isn't it.

The estate agent is well known around here (I said that on another forum and it got pulled. It was detected by another member that the company are in league with the site!) and I will not add further, enough said? but what was he doing trying to selll them a bar/boulangerie/resto ?

Their French was non existant and business acumen not far short either. They would have gone under within months, if that and was I glad they gave that a swerve, a disaster waiting to happen was written all over it.

 All the agent was interested in was making a sale at any costs and that does cheese me right off.

There are 2 more like this (diffrent shows) in the can, so to speak and one shows a family , again in the centre of Brittany with disasters all through the sale and after, will it put the tide of people off who want to come here?

My opinion; No more than King Canute did.

Miki

[Will]

I'm not surprised if they have gone back, for all the reasons Miki has mentioned it would have been a miracle if they succeeded.

I found the programme rather annoying. One the one hand it highlighted just how impossible it is to do anything business-wise unless you have some command of French, which was undoubtedly, in the immortal words of 1066 and All That, a Good Thing. But on the other it perpetuated the myth that people can come to France with little in the way of assets, buy a decent property outright and run a business. And by ending with the family's decision to stay in France it made it appear that all would work out in the end. I hope there can be a follow up, but I rather think there won't.

I agree Miki. How long did that agent claim to have been working in France? His accent was even worse than mine. And what sort of person would try and sell a business catering to French people to a family who does not speak French and with no knowledge of retail, even in England? It doesn't sound very responsible, to put it mildly.

[Richardrawlings]

[quote]I'm not surprised if they have gone back, for all the reasons Miki has mentioned it would have been a miracle if they succeeded. I found the programme rather annoying. One the one hand it highlighted...[/quote]

Will

Sometimes there is but they tend to do the success ones rather than the failures

 

Richard

[Merteuil2]

Will

<<I' agree Miki. How long did that agent claim to have been working in France? His accent was even worse than mine.>>

I'm glad you said that Will.  I hesitate to comment on language, for fear of being called pretentious (Qui, moi?), but I saw this programme and was amazed that the agent said he'd been working in France for 15 years - not just the accent, but he made some very basic mistakes when speaking French.

But, as I said to my husband, if those people could make a successful move to France, I'm d*** sure we can!

[Merteuil2]

Will

<<I' agree Miki. How long did that agent claim to have been working in France? His accent was even worse than mine.>>

I'm glad you said that Will.  I hesitate to comment on language, for fear of being called pretentious (Qui, moi?), but I saw this programme and was amazed that the agent said he'd been working in France for 15 years - not just the accent, but he made some very basic mistakes when speaking French.

But, as I said to my husband, if those people could make a successful move to France, I'm d*** sure we can!  One day....maybe....

[Russethouse]

>>I agree Miki. How long did that agent claim to have been working in France? His accent was even worse than mine. And what sort of person would try and sell a business catering to French people to a family who does not speak French and with no knowledge of retail, even in England? It doesn't sound very responsible, to put it mildly.<<<

The sort of person who runs a large forum (not LF).......who oddly didn't seem very keen that this was known!

[Miki]

[quote]>>I agree Miki. How long did that agent claim to have been working in France? His accent was even worse than mine. And what sort of person would try and sell a business catering to French people to a ...[/quote]

"The sort of person who runs a large forum (not LF).......who oddly didn't seem very keen that this was known! "

Right on the nail Gay.

Anything that was mentioned about that agent (or agency) by the members on that forum found their postings missing and in some cases, warnings given to them, reminding the member about their code !

I could tell you some of the fibs (nice little gentile word eh?) that have been told to us by a few of our clients who have either found houses or shown houses by that particular company. To make things equal, they do allegedly have some good management as well.

Miki

[letrangere]

[quote]Will Sometimes there is but they tend to do the success ones rather than the failures Richard[/quote]

Richard, I'm sure you're right.  I got to see an episode of a House in the Sun recently for the first time ever, someone sent me a copy on video for it was about a celebrity couple looking to buy a holiday home in the town I'm currently stranded in.  And what struck us - apart from the utter dreadfulness of the entire programme - was that the wife couldn't conceal the fact that she wasn't at all keen on buying a place here in the first place.  She actually said at one point that she'd rather be at home in Surrey.  But clearly the show must go on.  The TV company had paid for these people to come here, various property developers had been contacted and presumably convinced of the commercial advantages of taking part, and what seemed like forever by way of air time had been allocated to showing the two of them traipsing around various building sites.  So I suppose it was inevitable that they would be persuaded to buy something in the end, in much the same way that a family in France on a similar programme would be agree to stick it out for a while.  M

 

 

[Will]

Martyn

The agency Judie works for has been involved in some of those programmes, though really from the point of view of just buying a house rather than a complete change of life. It does, however, give a bit of an insight into how those programmes work: without giving anything away things aren't always exactly how they appear on the screen, as I'm sure you know. 

Although estate agents are definitely a particular breed of person (sorry Martyn ) I have to say that in many cases the agencies featured in these programmes do themselves no favours - though from our direct experience Jill (Judie's patron) does come across well on the box, and the clients featured have been, dare I say it, more sensible and/or better informed than the average.

The failures would make good TV as far as we, the forum users, are concerned, but from the point of view of those involved in making the programmes they have a vested interest in making the stories look like successes. Even so few of the 'I Want that House', 'Place in the Sun' etc participants seem to end up actually buying any of the featured houses. I suppose a good combination of agent and client is how some programmes succeed (comparatively speaking).

There seems to be no let-up in approaches to agencies from programme makers - it's a cheap and easy formula and seems popular with the public at large unfortunately.

I think I remember that celebrity 'place in the sun' - wasn't that Anthea Turner and Grant Bovey? No wonder...

[Russethouse]

This months mag has a quiz to 'test' your suitability for a full time move.

http://www.livingfrance.com/LVFR/content/article.asp?ArticleID=92

Its part of a bigger article and interestingly mentions that women often find it harder to settle than men !

[letrangere]

[quote]This months mag has a quiz to 'test' your suitability for a full time move. http://www.livingfrance.com/LVFR/content/article.asp?ArticleID=92Its part of a bigger article and interestingly mentions tha...[/quote]

Gay, I enjoyed the quiz.  Someone at LF must have had fun devising it!  M  (who was practically all C's bar 1)

 

 

[Russethouse]

I liked it because its sensible and asks valid questions, which might make some one planning a move think ....not too 'fluffy' !!

[Will]

quote: "as you know I am not an Estate Agent, but an Agent Commercial and Gabrielle and I would call ourselves Property Consultants and were not of the breed Estate Agents when in the UK.

regards

Martyn"

Mac1003 - just off to wash out my mouth with soap and water, and when I've finished I'll have a go at that quiz to see if I can actually cope with living here...

[Val_2]

I too watched the programme and one thing struck me - how on earth does a fairly large family get their affairs in order, pack up completely and move themselves to goodness knows where all in the space of just two weeks? That was the first dose of unreality and did I get it right that it was just two weeks from meeting those two presenters? Anyway, the old saying is true that if you can stick it out for three years here, then you will stay and having children does help as you are not hopping back and forth to visit them if they or you were older people. The family are still living here, one member on another site has seen them about where they live and they are in the phone book. Luck is what you make it in life and who knows, for all their faults at not speaking fluent french or having any idea of how they are going to live, they might just make a go of it.

As regards the estate agent, he was just out in my opinion to advertise his business (who wouldn't) at the expense of these people and showing them ridiculous properties - how could they have run a business without any idea in the first place and no language skills,it dosn't come overnight. I made this point on "that other place" and received a nasty e.mail from the owners too saying it would be deleted although I named no names(cos I didn't know it anyway) or said anything personal,which confirms my thoughts him being connected in some way with that particular site.

Anyway for those children's sakes, I hope they manage to make a go of it here.

[Richardrawlings]

[quote]Gay, I enjoyed the quiz. Someone at LF must have had fun devising it! M (who was practically all C's bar 1)[/quote]

< Gay, I enjoyed the quiz.  Someone at LF must have had fun devising it!  M  (who was practically all C's bar 1)>

MWJ

Which question did you not get as a C?

 

Richard

 

[Teamedup]

LOL I couldn't really answer any of the questions, didn't apply to us.

 

[letrangere]

Richard, I "failed" the question about keeping in touch with relatives and friends back in Belaity.  I ticked the answer implying they were always welcome to come and visit us, whereas I should have said I had made financial provision for returning "home" at regular intervals (or something).    

Gay, I fully agree with your comment about how sensible it was.  Presenting a string of very sound ideas in a light hearted manner was an excellent idea.  Just hope people take them on board.

M

 

 

 

[bonbon]

How frustrating. The blurb in the RT said all this week would be an update on this family in Brittany. Instead was on the family in Goa. Probably to do with the Olympics, programme chages? Still, when if ever will we catch up with the Brittany people?

[Gillsteve]

TIME TO OPEN CAN OF WORMS

the bit that annoyed me most was the meeting of british couples in the area,i have nothing at all against running into british people in my area (22).but the words intergrate not colonise spring to mind.