Rights in a restaurant

[Senrabbit]

On Sunday MOH and I went to Royan to have a look around. We went into one of the restaurants on the front and ordered a meal. I ordered the veal escalope with tagiatelli  and MOH ordered the Moules et frites.  After only 8 minutes the waiter brought our food out and I thought that is a bit quick to cook a schnitzel and tagiatelli.  MOH’s moules were fine but my escalope was rubbery and cold as was the tagiatelli. I called the waiter over and pointed this out to him and he took it away. He then brought me the menu to choose something else but I declined.

On leaving I was presented with a bill for both meals. I pointed out that I had not eaten my meal for the reasons given. Therefore I felt that I should only pay for the one meal and the drinks we had. The manager of the restaurant then came over and started shouting at me. To cut a long tirade of abuse short he basically told that I had no right to refuse to pay as there was nothing wrong with the meal. I stood my ground and refused to pay for my meal.

To save some of you time I spoke in French and was calm and reasonable throughout. The manager and some French people who joined in were shouting and screaming at me.  Finally he calmed down and said oh just pay for the moules and the drinks.

My query is what are my rights in this situation?   I have to say that after nearly two years in France this was one of the rare occasions when I have had this kind of trouble. Usually the food is cooked properly and the service is excellent.

 

[richard.w]

Respect for standing your ground against all   it must have took a bit of bottle  

[Honeydo]

Would love to know which restaurant, will make sure I never visit. Have an apartment in Vaux-sur- mer but rarely eat in Royan. You must have nerves of steel, if somebody shouted at me like they did to you I probably would have been a coward and paid up. Good on you for standing your ground. 

[Senrabbit]

Thanks, you are both very kind. Unfortunately my main fault is for sticking my ground when I think I am right. I will not name and shame as the forum probably would not allow me to. Usually it is MOH who tells me not to make a fuss but she was right there behind me this time which always helps. The good news is that the good restaurants far outweigh the bad in our experience.

What I am really after is whether I actually have the right to refuse to pay in such circumstances.

[Teamedup]

Good for you.

I have only been shouted at in a boulangerie in our village, long story.

A couple of summers ago we were in Annecy in a very nice resto. I had nearly finished my salade compose, with olives in it and found a big fly.

The customer service was odd. They brought me champagne, one flute. I don't like champagne and was driving anyway and said that they would bring me the same salad again.......... my apetite had been cut so didn't want it. They didn't charge for the salad though.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Things may be different now, but...many years ago when I was a small-ish boy (16) on holiday with my parents in the Dordogne we took dinner in a restaurant in Sarlat. A German couple in the same restaurant took exception to what they had been served and a huge row broke out. The Germans spoke only a few words of Frence and my late father, speaking both languages, got involved in trying to settle things. He had a habit of doing things like this that got him into no end of trouble over the years.

Anyway, the owner called the fuzz and they more or less told the Germans that they had to pay before leaving or face being arrested. However, if they felt that the meal had been unacceptable then they should make a claim on the restaurant in writing and through the courts if necessary to get their money back. In the meantime they (the police) would investigate (how I do not know) if the restaurant had breeched any regulations regarding hygine in the preparation of the meal. The Germans said that they couldn't be bothered with that and then the owner suddenly backed down, decided that it had all been a terrible mistake and tore up their bill. Mental.

[peterw]

Like a lot of things there is the theory and the practice. IMO if the police are involved then  your hand is forced - pay up or be arrested. Not all restauranteurs will tear up the bill. The idea that you are going to waste time energy and resources going through the court system  over a small amount is a joke, unless you are the most vindictive of people, you will never bother. Trouble is you will find that most restaurant owners intuitively know this, so if they are unscrupulous they wil play this to their advantage.

In practice, if the meal was not as described or worst, just dont pay. Pay what you think is fair and leave without fuss, then the tables are turned on the restauranteur- he then has to chase you... through the courts.. The reality is that he is probably too busy to bother as well. If going this route, dont wait for phone calls to be made to police. Above all make sure that you are clear why you are not paying and leave with a clear concience.

[Senrabbit]

"In practice, if the meal was not as described or worst, just dont pay. Pay what you think is fair and leave without fuss, then the tables are turned on the restauranteur- he then has to chase you... through the courts.. The reality is that he is probably too busy to bother as well. If going this route, dont wait for phone calls to be made to police. Above all make sure that you are clear why you are not paying and leave with a clear concience"

The only trouble with that is the owner may be agressive as this one was and chase you. I am not that fast these days.  It may then put me in a bad light with the gendarmes if I were to "do a runner" which is something I would not relish. I just wondered if anyone actually knew whether one has any rights in a restaurant.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]"In practice, if the meal was not as described or worst, just dont pay. Pay what you think is fair and leave without fuss, then the tables are turned on the restauranteur- he then has to chase you... ...[/quote]

I believe you have (under EU law) the same rights as you have in the UK, as someone else pointed out, you only need pay what you think the meal is worth. It is up to the owner to sue you if he thinks you are wrong.

Problem is, this means (as it is a civil matter) the UK Police would not be interested. However, the Gendarmes can (and will) intercede in civil matters (and can arrest you, should the fancy take them - you couldn't be arrested in the UK under the circumstances described).

How much is the moral high ground worth to most of us, I wonder?!

 

[Fritz]

Of all the meals I've eaten in France 10% have been inedible, 40% just about digestible, 40% OK and 10% good. I've complained on a few occasions, a memorable one being that posh brasserie down from the Bourse in Paris, where the rognons looked like and tasted (I imagine) like an excised brain tumour. The complaint had no effect whatsoever. Conclusion? Just don't. Waste of time and bound to upset you.

[opas]

Different country I know, but a few years ago we spent a few days in Estartit in Spain with our caravan. There was a festival of some sort that the girls asked if we could go to one evening , so decided to make a night of it by eating out.

As is normal when one dines out each of us ordered a different meal, and they all arrived at diffeent times!

To start with mine arrived so I said I would wait till the other meals arrived(thinking it would only be a matter of minutes.)...about 10 went by and MrO suggested I start eating as mine would go cold whilst he called over a waiter to enquire about the other meals.

He returned with 2 plates one for Hubby and the other for the eldest....youngest was getting upset as she was hungry and thought she wasn`t getting any diner, I was getting hot under the collar and looked around to see similar situations at other tables.....So asked again where the other dinner was, all the while youngest is scrounging bits off everbody elses plates and appetites were quicky suppressed by the lack of service.

By this time we had finished our meals and drinks , still no sign of youngests dinner so we asked for the bill , when It arrived all 4 meals were charged for, We asked for the manager and explained what had happened  and hey presto this meal arrived   about 45 mins after mine!

We said we didn`t want it( having prominsed the youngest , some chips  and ice cream at the bar on the campsite) The manager also threatened the police,which didn`t bother us one bit , he then produced a complaints book(can`t remember if the tourist police turned up or not) But from what I can remember every restaurant in spain has to have an official complaints book, he gave me some forms in triplicate(all in Spanish) so when we got back home I had a lady at work translate them and help me fill them out , they then went to an office in spain and months later I received a letter from them explaining that the owner had been cautioned. For what I do not know and I also seem to think that we made an offer on the meal.

Mrs O