France ASBO's

[oldgit72]

Is there a French equivalent of the British anti-social behaviour order? Do contributors to this forum think there is a need for this in France? Have people encountered anti social behaviour in France? I ask as I have picked up a couple of stories on this forum regarding nuisance neighbours and wondered if it is isolated instances or whether France is becoming more like Britain in this respect.

[Teamedup]

...........becoming more like Britain in this respect

 

[8-)]Well actually France has managed to produce it's own obnoxious, anti social people all by itself  sans influence from the anglo saxons.  I am sat here amazed that you would even think that anti social behaviour was some sort of 'export'.

I have no idea as to whether there are any laws specific to this particular problem.

[goose]

....more than I'm led to believe there was "in days of yore" but still much, much better than in England. Go to a(ny) town centre on a saturday night at 11.15 in England and you'll see young louts throwing up and generally behaving badly. The French may have their social problems but at least thuggery isn't one of them. Yet.

[Agenais]

We were shocked to hear of a local mugging, the first very anti-social, indeed criminal occurrence we have encountered, since moving here some years back.    There has been talk of drug problems in local towns and villages.  As for anti-social neighbours, no, not in our experience, nor have we heard of any, long may it remain that way.  11.15 here, (moreso in winter) you can walk around the village and it resembles the Marie Celeste, very peaceful. 

[Teamedup]

Les un's et les autres then.

The problems are not direct copies but when it boils down to it, violence in the streets and neighbours being a nightmare has the same effect on the victims no matter where you are. Many of my sons' friends (french) have been attacked in the streets in France. Even my own son has had a knife pulled on him in that very nice bourgeois city of Metz a few christmases ago.

This idealistic version of France well, I'm not even sure if Nullepartville-en-Pleincampagne is really sans problems if one peels back the layers.Or one ends up moving next to neighbours that don't care what they do and when.

 

 

[Agenais]

I quite agree with you Teamedup, there are many layers to an onion, wherever you may live, be it en campagne or centre ville.  Mans inhumanity to fellow man never ceases to amaze and we assume we are the supreme beings......... [*-)]

[Val_2]

For those with rose tinted glasses convinced about how free of crime France is just read the results published in the local press every weekend of the local tribunals and see just what goes on in everyday life here. Even in this expensive neck of the woods you still get murder,rape,shootings and general muggings going on as well as plenty of wife-beating,robbery and drunken behaviour often resulting in attacks on gendarmes. Everyone seems to end up at the local prison ferme, it must be one hell of a huge place.

[oldgit72]

Thanks for the replies. The question was primarily around whether the quintessential French rural idyll was a thing of the past or whether contributors had experienced similar problems to those that have crept into village life in the UK in recent years - burglary,speeding cars,inconsiderate neighbours etc etc. From a distance, rural France still appears to have some of the qualities that rural England had 50 years ago and whilst I appreciate that generalisations are only as valid as the worst case scenario, for one considering the move from the UK, it is useful for comparison purposes to calculate the odds of finishing up with similar problems to those that one has just left behind.

 

Thanks

[Patf]

As to difficult neighbours - it would certainly be worthwhile checking

out your neighbours before buying in France. In rural areas especially.

Though there are some situations which you can't predict. I've come

across several difficult situations with neighbours, one of which is

our own.  Pat.

[Teamedup]

And just under 50 years ago oldgit72, teddy boys used to burn down barns out in the country. Well they did where I am from, daresay they are all now all grumpy old men and consider themselves pillars of society now complaining bitterly about today's youth. This is all a bit like 'silent balls' but that is quite another story.

 

[Agenais]

I would say that there are many qualities of rural French life that are similar to those of bygone UK days, (which were not always the good old times).  That's only our experience.  Having moved from a large inner city area in the UK where I was not happy to walk around in the day, let alone at night.  I feel safer here, wether I actually am or not, I can't answer that.  Any one of us, in any town village or rural retreat, throughout the world, could be a victim of violence or crime at any given time.   

[SaligoBay]

I think it also depends how good your French is, and what level of conversation you have with French people.

Your French has to be at least reasonable for you to plough through a newspaper, so at the beginning one is completely unaware of about 95% of what's going on.   Val2, the prisons aren't big, they're just horribly overcrowded! [:)]

Conversation - if you're still struggling along with sign language and your mind is full of DIY and EDF and learning to do apéro, of course people aren't going to try to discuss Chirac and social ills and drug problems and domestic violence...... c'est normal!  

Also, much of this news passes along the grapevine -  you have to be part of it and capable of understanding it.  Ca aussi, c'est normal in any country.

It's actually very interesting being able to watch the French news and read the papers easily.  You do see a different France.   Even the current thing about the frightening rise in cannabis-related road deaths.  Or that dreadful child-abuse case that's gone so wonky.  Or how many French children are living below the poverty line.

There's a lot to be said for staying in a bridge-playing, English-speaking enclave!  [:D]

    

[Clarkkent]

I would say that there are many qualities of rural French life that are similar to those of bygone UK days, (which were not always the good old times).  That's only our experience.  Having moved from a large inner city area in the UK where I was not happy to walk around in the day, let alone at night.  I feel safer here, wether I actually am or not, I can't answer that.  Any one of us, in any town village or rural retreat, throughout the world, could be a victim of violence or crime at any given time. 

 

The Agenais is a wonderful, peaceful country where people get on with their lives and live in harmony with nature and the seasons ...

... it is also an area where in the last 20 years two young girls have disappeared. Magali's body was discovered eventually, but Marion has never been found.

SB's observations about communication are very true. I have come across several people who believe that rural France is a "safe" place for children - based on little more than the inability to obtain reliable information due to their linguistic incompetence.

 

[Agenais]

As I said Clarke, I am only going on what I have experienced, don't assume incompetence with the language, inability to glean information through conversation or written text,  nor that the world is viewed through rose coloured specs.  I know the high agenais is not a french idyl.  Did I say I, or anyone else was safer? no, it is a question no one can predict or answer, I said "I feel safer here", moreso than in the UK, living in an inner city environment, it does not mean that we sit and sing Carpenters Songs about "snow white turtle doves"........and perish the mere thoughts of a bridge club [+o(]

[Clarkkent]

A thought, Agenais, (possibly heretical): do you think your perceptions would be similar had you moved from a French inner city environment to, say, Herefordshire?

The English part of my life is spent in an attractive village with a strong sense of community in middle England where I have generous and friendly neighbours. It is a good place to be. Almost half the houses in my little French village are second homes - with British and French owners. My neighbours are friendly and kind. It, too, is a good place to be.

Many of the postings about life in France try to compare UK urban with French rural conditions. I wonder whether such comparisons are valid.

... isnt bridge a major cause of domestic violence?

 

[Agenais]

... isnt bridge a major cause of domestic violence?

Lol, understandably so..........

My perceptions would likely be similar, yes.  Many French make a move to the UK, for whatever reasons, work or personal choice, I wonder if they feel the same way too?

Perhaps it is unfair to compare inner city to rural locations, be it here or in the UK.  Having not been back to the UK for a long time I cannot offer a personal slant on current inner city life.  Like yourself, we are blessed with good neighbours.  I would not wish all newcomers to France to arrive with preconceived ideas of sweetness and harmony every step  of the way.  I do agree about the language aspect, it can be a great barrier and I am grateful now for having  French A level, even if it was eons ago and most of it went out of the window over the passing years.  Now I feel old.........time for a round of Gin Rummy !  NOT

 

[Miki]

...................time for a round of Gin Rummy !  NOT

What's Gin Rummy Not ?

[Benjamin]

You seem to have a problem with bridge, or is it bridge players or is it that you like to go the long way round?

 

Benjamin

[Patf]

French people play bridge too. We belong to the local bridge club and

are the only non-french members. A good evening out especially the

bridge equivalent of the " 19th hole". Pat.

[Agenais]

Rummy is another card game, played it one time and lost. 

 

No offence meant to Bridge players of the world.  The inference to Bridge playing was metaphorically speaking I am sure, before we are slated by all those who adore the game.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Patf"]French people play bridge too. We belong to the local bridge club and

are the only non-french members. A good evening out especially the

bridge equivalent of the " 19th hole". Pat.

[/quote]

I don't know about bridge; the local game here seems

to be something called "tarot" (sp? - and it could be played

nationwide in organised leagues for all I know) that I have so far failed to

grasp despite having it explained to me about 83 times. The problem, I suspect,

is that it is, base case, fairly complex and longwinded in terms of rules, and

someone always brings along a bottle of home made sticky that I liberally help

myself to while the other guys argue about who is best qualified to instruct

me. By the time that this is settled I am feeling no pain and hardly best

adjusted for the required learning curve.

Swerving back in the

general direction of the original question, if the poster is wondering whether

the levels of "small-town" drunken thuggery in France are lower than

in the UK, then I would suggest the answer is probably, yes, they are

far lower. However, the recent riots notwithstanding, larger towns and the big

cities can certainly get interestingly frisky of an evening. Plus, the habit of

placing nightclubs in small, out-the-way villages (ours, for example) can mean

that some of the most unlikely places can play host to pitched battles between

rival groups. To be fair, so far they've kept the punch-ups to a field near the

club and the gendarmerie have taken to turning out in numbers at around 3am to

ensure that nothing spreads in the direction of the village centre. This is the

third incarnation of this particular establishment that we have known since we

moved here. Generally they seem to be closed down after a few months (some sort

of tax dodge?) and the problem moves away, so no-one expects that we will be

inconvenienced for long...

[Teamedup]

Belotte is the card game that is played most in our region. Never played it though.

[Clarkkent]

I have had both tarot and belotte explained to me. Tarot is whist with a few extra cards. Belotte is totally impenetrable, is played in bars and involves shouting and banging the table.

 

As far as bridge is concerned, I have made grown men cry with both my bidding and card play. I ceased to to take it seriously after seeing a feature film based on "The likely Lads".

 

[Agenais]

I had to smile today, after writing to say what a peaceful place we are living in, the Gendarmerie were out in force around town today, armed to the hilt,  shotguns at the ready.......Will have to see what the jungle drums say about such a show of armory.

[Will]

Belote is very popular in S Normandy too, particularly among the retired, who take it very seriously (so much so that ASBOs may well be de rigeur in the local salles polyvalentes.

If you want to find out more, you can try it out at http://www.pellencsoftware.com/bexpert.htm, or if that's too incomprehensible for you (it is for me) the rules in English can be found at http://www.pagat.com/jass/belote.html