Revolution due?

[Gastines]

Is the UK heading for a Revolution or will they all sit back and accept whatever is thrown at them? The divide now seems to be growing at an unprecedented rate,we have  one bunch who seem to be able to line their pockets with bonus's/pension top-ups and golden handshakes no matter what blunders and errors they seem to make,another bunch who live such a protected live that the odd private jet or helicopter flight is an irrelevance; as long as they don't pay for it; the Ministers who seem more worried about their own expence accounts being revealed than making decisions that affect the country. A thought brought on by a phone call to our daughter in UK today. Works all the hours she can possibly do and today noticed a £10 extra deduction on her wage slip. Went to re-tax her SMALL car,since the reminder was sent it has gone up £4. Her basic shop in ASDA has gone up dramatically and she,who normally does not worry about too much;says she has noticed a definate change in people spending/shopping and worrying about jobs.Without giving too many details away, one of the main items used by her employers has gone up in price and availability that 3 other similar business owners are now going to try and source their supply direct from China.The latest blunder from G.B. regarding the 10p tax seems to only show how out of touch the majority of these ministers are.Perhaps one day they will realise,along with the Royals +entourage, that there isn't an Empire to pay for it anymore or much industry left in UK either.

Regards and feeling better for that.

[Bugsy]

This will make you cry G..............just look at the quoted figures.

Car Tax changes

It could, of course, be worse, you could be a 20 stone fat bloke who claims he has bulemia [:D] just at the time he's trying to sell his stupid book.

It's definately time for a cull.....................................

 

[Gluestick]

I feel quite a lot will change in the UK prior to 2009.

A massive rise in vehicle excise duty when fuel already has a built in escalator -  VAT -  would be a bridge too far.

As mortgage costs have risen - and circa 1.4 families expect an horrendous rise as their low rate deals run out soon - , fuel, heating, food, most cost are rising far above the laughable figures government claims represent inflation.

The teacher's and refinery strikes are just the beginning.

Interestingly, I did forecast middle of 2007 a "Winter of Discontent".

The climb down over the abolition of the ten percent Income Tax Band is indicative of NuLab's wholly weak position and unpopularity.

The average person now starts to realise what analysts such as I have been banging on about for seven years: and economy predicated on insane house price rises and importing gimcrack from China has no substance and no resilience.

 

[Gastines]

Gluestick. The question seems to be ,'What qualifications do you need to be a politician?;Self interest?No common sense?As for the new Royals,inclusive of P.C. are they so pampered that they haven't a clue what life in the UK is descending to?

Must watch Crimewatch tonight, should be a very short programme as I am led to believe that crime has gone down 12%. Same statistics department as used by Mugabi?

.Glad I'm not the only one thinking on these lines.

Regards.

[Russethouse]

I'm not sure about a revolution, an election may help !

The 10p tax debacle just illustrates how far the Labour party has strayed from its roots.

[Casper Slides]

The trouble with Britain is that all the Eastern European immigrants have made a beeline for it as they mostly speak English as a second languauge and because they come from countries where the average monthly wage is less than £150 per month; consequently they see Britain as country where the streets are paved with gold. The British are happy to hire Eastern European workers becasue they will work for below minimum wage. The real cost to Britain as an article in the Times recently highlighted, is that the average migrant family costs the British taxpayer in excess of £60,000 per year. In the meantime there are 2 million British people who are too lazy to work claiming benefits. So car tax, fuel duty, duty on alcohol and tobacco, council tax (the list goes on and on) has to rise every year to pay for it all, 

While all this is going on people like you and me who have the money and the ambition to buy houses and set up businesses in other European countries are deserting the country in droves. Eventually all the useful people will be gone and Britain will be left with a nation of hedge fund companies where the employees are non doms, celebrities who are famous only for being famous and dole bludgers. The Roman and Greek Empires in their day ran the world and they both collapsed. Fifty years ago Britain was a major world power and is now on the slippery slope to oblivion. As a nation we are a laughing stock, we have joined Europe but we haven't embraced the currency, weights and measures or even language skills preferring to be dictated to by the USA. 

Although I am happy with my life (I split my year between living in France & Spain) I feel that I have been forced out of the country of my birth. I am not bitter about this but it does make me very, very sad.

Okay, rant over. 

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

As mortgage costs have risen - and circa 1.4 families expect an horrendous rise [:-))][:-))]as their low rate deals run out soon - , fuel, heating, food, most cost are rising far above the laughable figures government claims represent inflation.

[/quote]  Aren't you glad Gluey that you live in a country where the vast majority of the population are so well off they actually own their houses and can well afford the worldwide increases in petrol for all three cars and higher food prices.  What about those poor people in the third world who are having to deal with similar price hikes in their basic foods, they cannot sell their holiday homes or third car to tide them over until their wages catch up with prices or send the old woman out to work to pay for the holiday.  As for millions of houseowners in debt in the UK, what a load of media hype, even if all those 1.4 million (is that couples or actual mortgages?)  really are having to find a new mortgage, they have had the benefit of a lower interest rate for some time and what right did they have to expect to get a new mortgage at a lower rate,  after all that is why they took a fixed rate in the first place as a gamble against the rate going up, so that means that 1.4 million have done quite well in the last few years haven't they? But people doing OK does not make news in the media driven and controlled UK do they?

So it seems some people will have to pay 6 or 7% interest, well where is my hankie,[:-))]  When we got our first mortage in the 70s, we had  to pay 9% interest and others a lot more and that came through a broker as mortgaes were hard to get, no fixed terms in those days and when that rate rose to 13% then 15% in a short space of time, we just had to cut our cloth or extend the term, there was no alternative,  today's buyers are down right spoilt at  5, 6 and 7%.  Talk of revolution is utter tripe, just who is going to revolt?  You and who else? Why should you be bothered you can just sell the second home to buy some bread and rice, or better still give it to a poor French family who also now cannot afford a house or bread or petrol[:P].

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="casperslides"]

The British are happy to hire Eastern European workers becasue they will work for below minimum wage. The real cost to Britain as an article in the Times recently highlighted, is that the average migrant family costs the British taxpayer in excess of £60,000 per year.[/quote]

 

Casper while there is a lot of interesting argument in what you say, you must back these up by facts.  Nowhere has anybody said that the average EU immigrant family cost the UK taxpayer £60,000, unless its not in the report I read.  To be a cost there cannot be any benefit and the report quoted by the Times does not say that at all .  It actually said "The Lords report suggests that the overall impact of immigration on GDP per head has been close to zero".  it did recognise a marginal benefit, but not as much as had been claimed by the Home Office.

It was interesting to note that this study was keenly seized upon by the Local Government Association, who are not looking for bigger handouts from central government of course, they claimed they had to spend £ millions on extra bins, school desks and seats, hospital beds,  doctors, nurses,  police,  new hospitals, buses trains etc as a result of these immigrants as if none of these things were already there in the first place and under utilised, also completely ignoring the fact that many of these people now work in the NHS, clean schools and hospitals and drive buses because nobody else wants to do it.  It seems its OK to the Daily mail to recruit nurses from South Africa and Thailand but not bus drivers and cleaners from Poland.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

The Lord's report was a little disingenous in that, although the impact of immigration on per capita GDP may be negligible, the impact on the middle classes has been marked: it solved the "servent problem" for them. They had cheap nannies, gardeners, cleaners and housekeepers aplenty. And good on the migrants - they just took jobs no one else wanted at the time.

Sorry, but there has hardly been a winter, spring or early summer of discontent. The refinery strike would be an irrelevence but for the already high price of gasoline and the reluctance of people to use their legs or public transport to get around. They will grumble and moan, but they will also panic and pay up.

Objectively people in Europe are doing just fine: most of us have jobs, there is enough to eat and we have wealfare provision. Sure we may not be able to afford as many holidays, new cars and new clothes as we might like, but we are not going to starve either.

Reality kicking in might not be entirely comfortable but nor is it likely to cause revolution. After all, what could a new regime do? Find oil under Milton Keynes? Magic up masses of cheap food? Hardly.

[Gluestick]

 

[quote] Aren't you glad Gluey that you live in a country where the vast majority of the population are so well off they actually own their houses [/quote]

Well, a bit of them Ron! Probably. it's their mortgagee which owns a majority for many.........

[quote] and can well afford the worldwide increases in petrol for all three cars and higher food prices.[/quote]

Not according to most analysts: you are quite obviously privy to data we ill-informed analysts lack.

[quote]  What about those poor people in the third world who are having to deal with similar price hikes in their basic foods, they cannot sell their holiday homes or third car to tide them over until their wages catch up with prices or send the old woman out to work to pay for the holiday. [/quote]

Yes, Third World poverty and privation is an awful reality of our current world: I do suggest you start a thread about it, since this particular thread is about a different subject!

[quote]  As for millions of houseowners in debt in the UK, what a load of media hype, even if all those 1.4 million (is that couples or actual mortgages?)  really are having to find a new mortgage, they have had the benefit of a lower interest rate for some time and what right did they have to expect to get a new mortgage at a lower rate,  after all that is why they took a fixed rate in the first place as a gamble against the rate going up, so that means that 1.4 million have done quite well in the last few years haven't they? But people doing OK does not make news in the media driven and controlled UK do they? [/quote]

Since the stats come from the CML, ( which, as you are such a well informed source of fact I really don't need to explain, but for the other less well informed, I'll take the time and effort! It's The Council of Mortgage Lenders) and since at present there is a little hiccup called by the hyping media, The Credit Crunch, which you and I both know, Ron, is that the global Interbank Market has refused to roll over extant mortgage lender's debt and/or grant new lending facilities, those bloated capitalists with their three cars can't actually source a replacement mortgage at present and therefore have to suffer their rate going from circa 3.5% to 7% which strange enough is sort of double.

And since lenders most kindly worked on LTVs of up to 120% and income multiples of up to 8, well perhaps one of those three cars might have to go, as will the seven week cruises.

[quote]So it seems some people will have to pay 6 or 7% interest, well where is my hankie,[:-))]  When we got our first mortage in the 70s, we had  to pay 9% interest and others a lot more and that came through a broker as mortgaes were hard to get, no fixed terms in those days and when that rate rose to 13% then 15% in a short space of time, we just had to cut our cloth or extend the term, there was no alternative,  today's buyers are down right spoilt at  5, 6 and 7%. [/quote]

Yes indeed: however the market in the 70s was just a wee bit different. ( For a hint, see the preceeding paragraph.)

[quote]  Talk of revolution is utter tripe, just who is going to revolt?  You and who else? Why should you be bothered you can just sell the second home to buy some bread and rice, or better still give it to a poor French family who also now cannot afford a house or bread or petrol[:P].

[/quote]

I didn't in fact suggest that there would be a revolution: it was the OP.

Sorry as I am for the poor French families, that was not the subject of the OP.

As always, Ron, you burst into outraged print, without firstly reading the thread, properly and then in your indignation, meander off topic, delightfully!

I nominate Ron for Circumlocuter of the year!

[:D]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

I nominate Ron for Circumlocuter of the year!

[:D]

[/quote]

That is a great word G, that I'm happy to admit, never having seen before.

It is, as you say perfect for dear Ron, so I'm more than happy to second your nomination.........[:D][:D]

[Tressy]

[quote user="Gluestick"]...The average person now starts to realise what analysts such as I have been banging on about for seven years: and economy predicated on insane house price rises and importing gimcrack from China has no substance and no resilience. [/quote] My bold.

Some of us were saying it in 1981, 1982 - and so on.[:)]

I never realisesd I used to be a visionary.[:D]

[Russethouse]

So what that means is that you were wrong from 2001 until 2008 but now you are right .......[:)][:)]

It comes to something when I look back with fondness to the days when we paid 15% interst on our mortgage and were only allowed 3.5 times combined salaries (or 3 times Mr RHs + .5 of mine)

[Chancer]

[quote user="Gluestick"]

As always, Ron, you burst into outraged print, without firstly reading the thread, properly and then in your indignation, meander off topic, delightfully!

I nominate Ron for Circumlocuter of the year!

[:D]

[/quote]

I really like the way you manage to flatter at the same time!

[Tressy]

[quote user="J.Rars gone native"]I really like the way you manage to flatter at the same time![/quote]

5 insults  quoted, Vs a veiled compliment?[:D]

Ron would do well not to get out of bed for that.

Breakfast in Bed, Ron?

[Ron Avery]

I have printed off Gluey's reply, Mrs T and a lot of his short and to the point pevious posts, they sit on my bedside table as essential night time reading..

I didn't realise that you had to reply to only one post at a time and give Sir Gluey of the Rear Mrror Society and Leader of 100% right in hindsight Society,  100% attention in replying to a thread, so sorry about that but I digress[:P], anyway back to the point, there is a sleep clinic on This Morning today or This Afternoon tomorrow and I have nominated all Glueys posts as 100% cure for insomnia , I got to line 5 of 5,678 of one and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[blink][kiss]  Thank God they are not on paper or there would no rain forest[:P]

[Gluestick]

Since I am presently having to research some UK stats for a market analysis, on disposable incomes, I thought it might be interesting to present these: I apologise for the random way the data is assembled. Not much time this morning!

 

Picking up on RRE’s comment about nannies, it does make one wonder how many families could actually afford one. I've often wondered, actually.

 

What is also interesting, is to ponder how so many people successfully managed to obtain such high mortgages, again, looking at some of the industry stats for these.

 

The media this morning are now talking about a "Summer of Discontent"; which doesn't have the same Shakespearean ring to it, somehow.

 

“The study by sharingcare.co.uk shows that there are now 111,484 nannies in the UK with many enjoying live-out salaries of up to £30,000 a year.”

 

Income UK 2007:

 

Average Incomes, UK:

 

Average: £ 498 (Male) £ 394 (Female)

 

Top 10% Earn > £ 906/week

 

Bottom 10% earn < £ 252

 

29.5 Million in work:

 

5 million people classed as Low Paid

in 2006: i.e., earning < than  £6.67/hour.

 

Which is 23% of TOTAL employed in UK.

 

Income Thresholds	Percentage of Total
< £10,000/ P.A.	18.9%
£10,000 - < £30,000	55.3%
£30,000 -< £100,000	24.5% *
£100,000 +	1.3%

 

 

*Circa 20.5% earn less than  £55K in this band. Thus only 4% of total UK workers earn above £55K/P.A.

 

 

Source: Hansard:  31-03-2008

 

Here: 

 

Cited: Office for National Statistics – 2007

 

[Gastines]

With reference to Ron Avery and Gluestick's obvious rapport,it would be interesting to know which one is/was in the employ of Government/Civil Service. I think I'll put my money on?

Anyway gentlemen, at least we still are able to express our opinions,but don't hold your breath.

Regarding Government and Local Councils,it does seem as if most of their work time is taken up with Empire Building. Building up their own office importance and entourage.The UK seems to have a huge number of employees in the public sector who only produce paperwork and hot air.I seem to remember G.B. P.M. stating it was his intention to REDUCE staff by 120000. Do they EVER complete anything promised?

I await replies with interest.

Regards.

[Russethouse]

“The study by sharingcare.co.uk shows that there are now 111,484 nannies in the UK with many enjoying live-out salaries of up to £30,000 a year.”

And they deserve every penny ![:D]

 

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

I have printed off Gluey's reply, Mrs T and a lot of his short and to the point pevious posts, they sit on my bedside table as essential night time reading..

I didn't realise that you had to reply to only one post at a time and give Sir Gluey of the Rear Mrror Society and Leader of 100% right in hindsight Society,  100% attention in replying to a thread, so sorry about that but I digress[:P], anyway back to the point, there is a sleep clinic on This Morning today or This Afternoon tomorrow and I have nominated all Glueys posts as 100% cure for insomnia , I got to line 5 of 5,678 of one and ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ[blink][kiss]  Thank God they are not on paper or there would no rain forest[:P]

[/quote]

Nice to know I have at least one fan, Ron!

Personally, I do think focus on the UK economy is pretty important at present, as so many here have their cost base in Euros and their income in sterling.

I have two specific friends in France permanently who are in this position and are increasingly struggling now, with less real income and rising local costs.

Personally, planned improvements are now shelved, for the duration, since I fear it will all become far worse before it improves.

 

[Ron Avery]

Gluey my God, I actually agree with you!![:-))][:-))]

People in the UK want to try taking a 17% reduction in their net income on top of increased food bills and the oil price driven increases in energy prices and other commodities. its got so bad I have had to cut the steel bull bars off the old 4 x 4 and sell them just to buy a loaf of bread, [:(]at least the price of worthless scrap has gone up[:P]

[Gluestick]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Gluey my God, I actually agree with you!![:-))][:-))]

[/quote]

As a friend said to a fellow academic one day, "He and I agree.......... violently!"!

[:)]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

its got so bad I have had to cut the steel bull bars off the old 4 x 4 and sell them just to buy a loaf of bread, [:(]at least the price of worthless scrap has gone up[:P]

[/quote]

Touche............................................................[:D][:D][:D][:D]

but a whole loaf of bread, I wish.....................[:)]

[Gluestick]

This is starting to sound like a Python sketch, Gary!

You didn't used to live in a fosse septique by any chance?

When you wert a slip o' a lad, naturellement ?

[:D]

[Bugsy]

Six in a bed like sardines we was.

Tin bath in the kitchen, tallest got in first.

Hand-me down clothes.

No shoes.

Swimming in the 'cut'.

and dinner on Sunday we was shown pictures of Fanny Cradocks roast dinners when we 'ad marmite sandwiches.

[Www]