Neighbour parking on my land

[Julietruly]

Help! A French neighbour has written to me to ask for permission to park his car on my land (the property is derelict at present).

I would be more than happy to help him out but am a bit worried about whether he would become entitled to carry on using the land.

I hope to go out and start renovations next summer.

Can anyone advise? Thanks.   

[TWINKLE]

If you say no then you're not going to be off to a very good start with your neighbour. 

 If you're not going to be even starting work on the property until next summer then why is it going to be a problem?  Maybe you could reply saying that it's fine to do so up until the approximate date of renovation but then after that it won't be possible. Just be firm and polite. 

[Missy]

MAKE SURE he is only wanting to park his OWN car!! and not wanting to dump old wrecks which, when you come to renovate next year,  he'll deny having dump there in the first instance. Then you are lumbered with getting rid of the wrecks as well as all the expenses associated....

Sorry to be so pessimistic.... just experience.....

[cooperlola]

I don't know about this specific question but my nieghbour who has recently moved in has a 2 hectare field which this year was planted and farmed for her by another farmer.  Other farmers have advised her not to let him do this more than once as if she gives permission for more than a year, he could claim rites in perpetuity.  I know farming is different but maybe you could agree to let him park there, as suggested above, for a set number of months but ask that it be removed after that.  Will certainly set you up with a good basis for a freindly relationship with your neighbour which in my experience is something money can't buy.

[Pun]

Hi   Julietruly,

No is the reply, ask your insurance company for advice on this, if you say yes and he has an accident  etc  or damages your house/property who pays?

we had bad storms a few years ago now and the damage was wide spread, people claimed for every thing, old wrecks that had no chance of being used, the Insurance companies got stung and now look for just what your being asked as a favour as a get out clause for them,

Ask your insurance how they feel ref this request.

 

[Deimos]

Whilst I think being friendly and helpful is ideal, most people wanting to do something would ask verbally (either when they next saw you or telephone you). Putting it in writing does beg the question as to do they expect a reply in writing - which then becomes a legal document and you are into all sorts of liability/rights. If you put a reply in writing then be very careful what you write !!

Maybe tell your neighbours (verbally) that you will not complain but that next summer and there after it will prove difficult so ...". The aspect of "in writing" would worry me and I would certainly not reply in writing. People can be very friendly until a strong wind dislodges some tiles which damage their car (and your insurance company starts "worming their way out of liability". Telling them "you would not complain" does not actually say you are giving them permission, just that you wont kick-up a fuss if they do.

I'd certainly say be friendly and helpful but do it in a way that does not cause you loads of problems down the line.

Ian

[Deimos]

Re: The farming fields thing

A local farmer cuts two of my grass fields each year (making and taking the hay). However, I pay him for doing this - thereby (I believe) he acquires no rights. Although I pay him cash (without receipt) I reckon that if he ever tried the "I have rights ..." and I start "I paid you cash, did you not declare it ..." he will have more of a problem with tax people than gains from a couple of extra hectares.

Ian

[cooperlola]

[quote user="Deimos"]Re: The farming fields thing A local farmer cuts two of my grass fields each year (making and taking the hay). However, I pay him for doing this - thereby (I believe) he acquires no rights. Although I pay him cash (without receipt) I reckon that if he ever tried the "I have rights ..." and I start "I paid you cash, did you not declare it ..." he will have more of a problem with tax people than gains from a couple of extra hectares. Ian[/quote]Useful comment Ian, thanks.

[Val_2]

Difficult problem in many ways. Firstly you need to be on good terms with neighbours BUT more often than not here, this could turn nasty if they decide not to park one vehicle but two,three,four and even more because you are NOT there to keep a check on what is happening each day. If it were me and I didn't mind just one vehicle being kept there, I would put a chain, thick rope or fence off just enough for that said vehicle right now and make it very clear in writing in a letter sent by AR (registered so you have a receipt it was accepted) that it will be only temporary parking for one vehicle and when you wish to start your renovations, the vehicle has to be moved. Keep it in simple terms, no threats or promises and it cannot be misconstrued. I suggest you get a native french person or a french teacher in the UK to do this for you so that there is no error on your part of how it is worded. Possession is a complexe subject here and usually the owner comes off the worst. I know what its like to like with awkward neighbours so antagonism is best avoided from the outset. During the summer holidays some folks opposite started to park their car and visitor's vehicles on our friend's piece of privately owned and maintained land opposite their house without so much as a by-your-leave. It came to a punchup between the "southerners(french south west) and the parisien land owner. We were then asked to help our parisien friend to erect a barrier but refused because we are also friends with the other party involved.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Pun"]

No is the reply, ask your insurance company for advice on this, if

you say yes and he has an accident  etc  or damages your

house/property who pays?

Ask your insurance how they feel ref this request.

 [/quote]

How would the insurance situation be any different from having a guest to your home park on your property?

Provided that you are accepting no payment or reward for this, there

is unlikely to be any implication for insurance beyond the normal third

party stuff that comes part and parcel of home insurance.

In fact, come to think of it, I seem to remember advice from

insurers (admittedly in the UK, but they're all international these

days) that a friend's car parked on your driveway whilst you were away

was a considerable deterent to buglars. Perhaps you should contact your

insurer and see if you can't negotiate a discount since someone is

keeping an eye on things for you....[Www]

I'd be tempted to let him - but make sure it is clearly understood that this is a temporary arrangement.

Why do I sometimes get the impression that when the collapse of Western

Civilisation comes the last sound will not, in fact, be neither a bang nor a whimper, but

instead the rustling of paper as people check for the last time whether

they are insured for it? [blink]

[Chancer]

In the "Michael Fish" big storm of 1987 the tiles blew off my garage roof and damaged my car roof, my (house) insurance company refused to pay on the grounds that it was my car and confirmed that if it had been a neighbours car they would have paid out.

I was young and couldn't afford the loss of  NCB so had to find another "creative" way in order to to get the money from them!

We have good reason to mistrust insurance companies in this day and age but I wonder if we are right to bring our well justified prejudices and experiences across the channel with us? I often read "your insurance company will do this" or "not do that" but I wonder how true that is in France.

Despite the fact that the previous bad experiences most of us have had were from companies under French ownership!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

In the "Michael Fish" big storm of 1987 the tiles blew off my garage

roof and damaged my car roof, my (house) insurance company refused to

pay on the grounds that it was my car and confirmed that if it had been

a neighbours car they would have paid out.

I was young and couldn't afford the loss

of  NCB so had to find another "creative" way in order to to get

the money from them!

We have good reason to mistrust insurance companies in this day and

age but I wonder if we are right to bring our well justified prejudices

and experiences across the channel with us? I often read "your

insurance company will do this" or "not do that" but I wonder how true

that is in France.

Despite the fact that the previous bad experiences most of us have had were from companies under French ownership!

The only time we have claimed here in France was following a lightning

strike that that fried the computer (this one, as it happens) and the

kettle. Everything was either repaired or replaced within a week

without a single form to fill in. When I contrast that with the six

month long song and dance to get a bathroom carpet replaced after a

boiler leak in London....

Insurance companies make their money by cultivating fear of "what would

happen if..." The fact that they (generally) make a profit illustrates

that "if" doesn't happen that often!

[Deimos]

My experience is the opposite way round (my UK experience fine "no problems" but the French one was my "worst nightmare" and still nearly 3 years on is not sorted). The French insurers are trying to use any excuse to avoid paying any small amount. They keep sending "experts" round to re-inspect the damage (though the last one was 9 months ago).

Ian

[cooperlola]

Am sure we'd now all like to know who Jon D and Deimos's insurers are...

[Jeanneclaire]

The way I see this, is if the neighbour has had the courtesy to write to you about parking his vehicle on your land, this shows that he wishes to remain in cordial relations with you, rather than make use of your land without your permission.  If you gave him permission, as suggested in an earlier reply, but mentioned that you would be commencing work at such and such a time, and thereby, the vehicle would not be safe from building works, this would perhaps keep the neighbour relationship going, and as mentioned this is worth a lot, as the French seem to take neighbourlyness seriously.  Every single issue nowadays can be debated to death, and all sorts of horrors can be applied, but if he has written and you write back, both letters would be available if the issue ever arose re any claims, which I do not forsee.

jeanneclaire

[Deimos]

Mine is a mainstream French company - one of the pretty large ones. Insurance done through an agency for the company (i.e. they only do insurance for that company). Sorry but not "tactful" to mention names on the open forum in a negative context.

Also, my own experience is of a single claim plus the impression I then got about French insurers from others when I started boring everybody with my experience. If they handled every claim like mine it would cost them a fortune in "experts" (they must have spent far more on experts visiting that the costs of the repair work) and they would have something of a reputation.

Ian

[Pun]

What if the person parking has more than one vehicle and these vehicles are not Insured by the owners, who pays for what if damage is done ????

[The Riff-Raff Element]

AXA. Didn't use them in the UK (though for the life of me I cannot

genuinely recall who we did use. I think I may have a traumatic

blockage about it. They kept sending "experts" around too. The

implication was that we had somehow engineered the leak to get a new

carpet.). AXA are by no means the cheapest, but I've always been

suspicious of cheap insurance (cheap for a reason, I would worry).

What if the person parking has more than one vehicle and these vehicles

are not Insured by the owners, who pays for what if damage is done ????

Pun - I am reminded of that fine old rhyme:

 "If ifs and ands were pots and pans, there would be no work for tinkers' hands!"

Sometimes it is just sooooo good to throw caution to the winds, ride

the wave...and let someone park a car on your garden. Heck, where would

we stop? Refuse to lend someone a garden fork without a written

disclaimer that they won't sue if they put it through their foot? Never

make anyone a cup of tea in case they dump it in their laps?

[Pun]

Jon

 you really are being silly,

But as your in to daft sayings try this one and then tell me Im wrong, "what the U.S.A. is doing today the rest of the western world will do tomorrow, ie everyone is sueing everyone. for christ sake Jon wake up, you cant even live in your own caravan on your own land here without permission, (while doing up a ruin thats not livable in)

what makes you think or know this wont turn sour, like the letting people use your land for a year or so to help keep the grass down and then it becomes a right or again do you  know   the law on this one jon?

 

Take it from me this person owning the land needs to make sure he,s not backing himself into a corner he may well regret.

 

I,ll   repeat what Ive said , check and know ALL the French do,s and dont,s befor you say yes or no, and then get it in writing as to whys and whens, word of mouth will not stand up in any court should things go wrong..

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Pun"]

Take it from me this person owning the land needs to make sure he,s not backing himself into a corner he may well regret.

[/quote]

I thought it was the neighbour who was backing into a corner?

A while back my neighbour (Claude) asked if he could cut my fence to make life a bit easier for himself on some building work he was doing. He promised to make good afterwards, and he did. He also cleaned up some weeds for me at the same time. Nice man, easy to say yes, no problem. Not every answer has to be legal, surely?

[Cassis]

I don't think it's worth getting too worked up over this.  If you want to be neighbourly and make a friend, I would let him park - nothing in writing - as long as he agrees that he will move it when you ask.  Jean-Luc, the farmer with the field next door to our garden, cuts the hedging adjoining his field every other year and clears our verges for nothing.  He gets nothing in return and there's nothing in writing.  I let a neighbour park his old Citröen DS in our barn because I don't need all the space.  Next door has lent me his lawn mower because ours is away being repaired.  We give our leftover bread, croissants, excess tomatoes and courgettes to a neighbour's poultry.  It's just being neighbourly and helps everyone rub along.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Pun"]

Jon

 you really are being silly,

[/quote]

So, hypothetically you understand, if I were to be invited chez

Pun, would you or would you not offer me a cup of tea without my first

signing a indemnity to hold you harmless should I scald myself? What

about the garden fork?

[quote user="Pun"]

But as your in to daft sayings try this one and then tell me Im

wrong, "what the U.S.A. is doing today the rest of the western world

will do tomorrow, ie everyone is sueing everyone.

[/quote]

Well, as you say, that is daft.

Point one: the USA is litigious to be sure, but not half as

litigious as yank-o-phobes would like to have us believe; everyone is

not acutally suing everone else;

Point two: If anything, politically and culturally Europe has

started on a divergent path to the USA, so it is no longer so simple as

to assert that what happens there will happen here.

[quote user="Pun"]

for christ sake Jon wake up, you cant even live in your own caravan

on your own land here without permission, (while doing up a ruin thats

not livable in)

[/quote]

Yes - I knew that. But this neighbour doesn't want to park a caravan: he wants to park a car. Not the same thing.

[quote user="Pun"]

what makes you think or know this wont turn sour

[/quote]

Oh I don't know, not for certain, but I would take the

(tiny, tiny) risk myself. As Cassis has already pointed out, helping

neighbours is usually to the benefit of all.

[quote user="Pun"]

like the letting

people use your land for a year or so to help keep the grass down and

then it becomes a right or again do you  know   the law on this one jon?

[/quote]

Different situation entirely, and not comparable

EDIT: I would add one point: were I agreeing, as Val above has

suggested, I would put what I was agreeing to in writing, just so that

there was no misunderstanding at some future time. But consulting my

insurer as to the conduct of such normal human intercourse? I don't think I'd do that.

[Dick Smith]

Phil - does he want to flog the DS?

[Cassis]

Not as far as I am aware, Dick. 

M Ratzenthaler (I assume he has Alsatian ancestry, though his bark is quite quiet and he does not bite) seems to love his DS and spends many a happy hour in the barn recharging his battery.  The main reason for this is that although he loves his goddess, he uses her far too infrequently.  She sometimes sits for weeks awaiting his next attentions.  I am sure this cannot be good for the old girl's hydraulics - I fear for her wonderfully complicated joints and that she may develop flat spots in her tyres etc.  But she does seem to start and stop quite efficiently once her batteries have been recharged, despite her long periods of inactivity.

She also has an odd two-tone colour scheme - gold and metallic chocolate.  But she looks good on it. [:)]