A 'must' listen to

[idun]

On BBC Radio 4, Brits Abroad from the Dordogne.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0643t2r

It isn't on for long.

Easy to guess who's interview I whole heartedly approved of.

 Of the others, well, a good example is the ladies, who move to France and then will not use a french hairdresser as they do not understand.

Basically I feel like I do about anyone who moves, to live permanently in another country, and that can be anywhere at all, and is unprepared to learn the language the natives speak. Basically it is bloody rude not to learn, and I could think of far more colourful language to use.

And then I start to wonder how people manage when things go wrong, illness etc, getting to grips with quite a different system, and what to do when and who with. Or do they 'put upon' those few around who in France's case can parlez-vous.

If we move back to France, and it is sort of on the cards, IF the UK leaves the EU, then we most certainly shall have to pick where we live, very very carefully indeed.

[nectarine]

Idun, I've used several French hairdressers in the past and , although my French is good, I've rarely ended up with what I wanted so I now use an English lady. Around here there seem to be two standard colours: brassy yellow or eyewatering red. My requests for pale blonde highlights and chocolate/caramel lowlights was understood but has been impossible to achieve ... until I found an English hairdresser who seems to understand that I don't want to look like a washed out Sixties blonde bombshell nor a red traffic light!

[mint]

I do try to understand the need for an "English" hairdresser but for me any old hairdresser who can do a decent cut is fine and dandy.

I do not colour or perm my hair, I do not use shampoo and a cut is absolutely OK.  I do love having my hair cut, especially in this infernally hot weather.

[Patf]

I've just listened to it Idun - interesting. But I think the Dordogne is an extreme example.

The biggest problem in all parts of France though seems to be the language. People under estimate how important it is, and for many it's just impossible to learn however hard you try.

[idun]

Come on, IF I agree that there are good and bad hairdressers everywhere, I have to ask  'what' is wrong with just telling them what you want, look in a hair magazine, show them. Heck even in France, they have coloured hair samples, one can match two or three...... more, of these samples...... the light and dark to show the highlights and this was in the little villages around us, not the big salons in the cities.

I had a few disasters, I admit it, but never returned to that salon again, but that happened in England before I left too, so it didn't shock me, just disappointed me.

In fact in France, there was often little village hairdressers who used Revlon products  and for me their products were wonderful, nearest to me now is near Manchester, or was it Blackpool, which is not near at all.

But it wasn't just the hairdressers in this broadcast. So many other things that I simply did not appreciate.

[Jonzjob]

Well, my Marie-Christine is a wonderful coiffure and she cuts my hair really well. She speaks at about 100 to the dozen with a very local accent. I have to tell her to slow down, but we get on great. No problems with my hair colour, grey and I have no idea as to why anyone would want to put chemicals that are used to clean engines on their heads.

As for people who move over and won't learn the language then hard luck to them because they are missing so very much of the way of life here! All of our near neighbours are French and don't speak English and that's the way we want it. We have a few English friends and the last time we saw them was several weeks back, no problems there.

If you wand Little England then you are welcome to it, but we are quite happy here. Village fête this Saturday and we are going with our French neighbour!!

My spoken French is OK, but mt written French is bad as I am slightly diskequisick [:$] and I have enough smelling in English never mind Frensh [:-))]

[Chancer]

An excellent radio program, I do miss the BBC presentation and prononciation.

I was moved by how Young the children sounded who said that they spoke much better French than their parents and had to act as their translators, having seen how frustrated and angry people become when they cannot speak French and use an interpretor if they speak through their children in the way that many used to want to speak through me then frankly its child abuse and I really feel for them, I stopped myself being used as an unpaid interpreter years back.

And it has been my experience that those with the particular accents that we heard on the program have the most trouble speaking French as they seem either incapable or unwilling to pronounce foreign words with anything but their own accent, interestingly when they were interviewed they used not one French term whereas others used words like cotisations (I think) and taxes foncières and habitation with good French prononciation.

I thought the interviewer was excellent in how he brought out the apparent hypocracy in some of them.

A very well thought out and produced interview, thanks for sharing it.

 

Editted. My posting was well composed with paragraph breaks and blank lines between each one yet this fecking new forum software has decided to remove them all and make it unreadable, what a first class wunch of bankers. 

[Chancer]

Looking at my last posting makes me really angry as it looks like I am one of those ignorant people that never punctuate or use paragraphs.

There should be a blank line after the full stop there is on this window that I zm typing in. (paragraph break)

This text should also have a space between it and the preceeding, i'm going to use the preview function now.

Well what do you know its still scrunching all the text together, lets try 4 carriage returns before my message to the incompetent ****wits that have destroyed this forum.

 

 

 

I will not be posting here any more if this huge c0ck up is going to make my postings look like those of an illiterate.

[lindal1000]

I haven't heard the program but I will try and listen to it. As I live in the Dordogne I can probably guess the content!

We spent a very nice evening with a group of people, French and English, from the Association we go to, to learn French. The French people go there to learn English. We discussed the very people who come to France and don't even try to learn a word. We also discussed how very hard it is to learn a language enough to become fluent. I am not a stupid person, and I work hard at learning French but I don't think I will ever be able to speak it as nicely as I would like. Although I try really hard and people say I have improved the accent is still something I still struggle with. I known in my head how I want the words to sound but when I say them they don't come out the way I want.

I think when English people here start to get problems that require hospital or care, then if they haven't learned the language they go back to UK. This has caused problems recently in that many people that are like that haven't been able to sell their house, so feel trapped and become more and more isolated. It poses big problems for the French health service, who struggle to recruit enough personnel to work in rural areas anyway, let alone those that speak English.

Most of the kids growing up round here are bilingual. English is a compulsory second language in most of the schools. The area also attracts a fair number of cosmopolitan French people from other parts of France who like the more eclectic mix of cultures. It's interesting to note that most of the French people learning English in our Association are 'not from round ere' but originate from Paris, other big cities or Vietnam.

[lindal1000]

Oh, and I do use an English hairdresser having been round all the others here. She is the only one that can cut my hair in a straight line and doesn't use a razor!

[andyh4]

I am not surprised by the comments of the Children's command of French versus their parents.

 

Friends moved to France some 25 years ago.  She was fluent, he undertook a university degree here.  They had children here, and when the younger one was around 5 years old, he asked his dad, "Why is your French so bad?"

 

This is not a person who did not try to speak French - he had to.  He speaks much better French than I.  And I never saw him using the children to act as interpreter.

 

What I think it demonstrates is the different ways we learn foreign languages when we are very young compared with as we approach teens and later.

 

 

Chancer- I wish there was a sympathy icon.  From the previous update to the forum, I had to suffer the nonsense that the quote box generated.  This now seems to be fixed for me but has transferred all sorts of problems to others.  I feel your anger.

[mint]

Re using your children as interpreters, I am reminded of when I worked in Luton and the Pakistani women would bring their children along to act as go-betweens.

As I worked in a medical capacity related to "women's problems", it was very seldom that husbands were present.

The men would normally have some English but the women (all those years ago) would not have permission to learn English.

Imagine getting your poor children to discuss all the ins and outs of your women's complaints....not very nice! 

[idun]

Forbidden!!!!!!!! Well they should be living in another country then and not the UK, because in the UK not only do we speak english, BUT, women are 'free'  and not enslaved. I have no time for not learning the local language, no matter where, IF one 'lives' in that country.

And I saw enough of children translating in France, usually with maghreb families, bearing in mind I was in my village for 25 years, those same women still couldn't speak french when I left and still cannot when I go back!

And yes, my accent is lousy, like Lindal, my brain knows how I should say words, never comes out that way though, I think I massacre french, but apart from one person, I am usually more than forgiven ..... and apparently my 'accent' is 'adorable' or 'mignon'......... and I am told, far too often, by french people, that I speak good french......... my kids hate me speaking french and my 'accent', they have NEVER translated for me, just cannot imagine expecting my children to do that, it would be wrong, on so many levels, in fact unacceptable.

[Cendrillon]

I managed to catch the programme on BBC iPlayer.

I thought it was well presented and probably did emphasise the worst side of some ex-pats living in France.

Of course not all areas are like this and I know we tried very hard to find a house in a village that was and remains very French. We are part timers, there is one English couple who live full time on the other side of the village. We are good friends with them but do not spend a lot of time with them.

P.S. I have an excellent French hairdresser[:)] who can cut / colour and blow dry my hair when required.

[Patf]

I should have added to my earlier post that I have an excellent french hairdresser too. I tried a few, then found a very nice lady who did a good job and helped me a lot with my spoken french. Then she retired, and a younger lady took over who is a brilliant cutter, but not so chatty. Neither are expensive (24€ wash and cut.)

[lindal1000]

Funny but when I lived in UK my hairdresser was French! Who I trust to cut my hair has nothing to do with their nationality or country of residence but whether I like the way they do it.

[Judith]

[quote user="lindal1000"]Funny but when I lived in UK my hairdresser was French! Who I trust to cut my hair has nothing to do with their nationality or country of residence but whether I like the way they do it.[/quote]

Exactly!  Mine is Irish - in France, but trained well and cuts as I like AND request.  That's what matters.

Edit: tried to post a longer reply upon the same lines yesterday, but lost it somewhere and gave up!

Edit 2: My cut is so good, that I can now wash it, comb it all back, leave it to dry naturally and it falls exactly as it should (and it is not short).  Now THAT is a GOOD cut!

[idun]

Isn't the point that the complaint on the program was that the 'english' speakers could not communicate properly, so would not use their local salons.

I know that there are lousy hair dressers in both the UK and France, nothing to do with the english speakers speaking english or french speakers speaking french. And these are to be avoided.