verbal contracts

[Fil]

Hi,

my friend came over to France nearly four years ago on the invitation of her mother and stepfather (in their late fifties) with her husband and child.  They were verbally 'gifted' a small annexe to the main house, which was then just a garage, which they have worked hard to renovate over the last four years.  Her mother and step father are now short of cash (supposedly) and she has had the cheek to get pregnant and the parents have decided that they need to reclaim part of the house originally gifted so that they can do 'bed and breakfast' to 'make ends meet'.  The stepfather has a well paid job, and the difference between the sale price in the UK and the purchase price over here is considerable, so my friend knows this is just an 'excuse' to get them out, due to the arrival of the new baby in six months time.

There is however, no written contract confirming the original gift - my friend viewed her mother as trustworthy! 

They are not being directly nasty, or directly asking them to leave, but are 'constructively' and 'subtlely' trying to edge them out by making the situation extremely difficult for them to continue next door.

What I would like to find out, for my friend, who is under far too much stress now for a pregnant lady (eight years of trying for a much wanted baby) is - is the verbal contract binding, and what rights do they have in the property?

Can they be evicted if the mother and stepfather want to sell up?  Can they actually get the verbal gift ratified and made legal even if the stepfather (the problem) is now going back on his word?

Over the last four years my friend and her husband have put a great deal of work into both their portion of the property (it is now a house not a garage) and also the surrounding land and fields (twenty acres).  At the very least is this reimbursable?

Can they force the mother and stepfather to make the house over to them so that they can sell up themselves and move somewhere else (they probably do not wish to continue next door to people who obviously do not care for them).

Please, this is urgent.

Fil

[andyh4]

I'm no legal expert, but ownership of property in France is controlled through a notaire who records everything, so there is no such thing as verbally gifting property in the eyes of the state.

[Iceni]

"Proper" legal advice is needed

Though common sense tells me that the transfer of land  in France, as in England, must be done in writing. And remember that " a verbal contract ain't worth the paper it is written on."

John

not 

[Llwyncelyn]

Iceni is absolutely right a contract for sale of land in the UK must be done in writing and whilst I am not as down on verbal contracts as Iceni (je suis avocat) I generally agree with him as well.

I do not know what the law is in France but the circumstances you outline would even have the most learned judge in the UK scratching his head.  Something tells me this is not going to be easy!

[Will]

The old saying quoted by Iceni that 'a verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on' seems to ring true here.

I always got the impression that a verbal agreement counted for a lot in France. Certainly that seemed true when people put in offers to buy houses and then dropped out before signing the initial contract; there used to be a lot of mutterings along the lines of 'you can't do that, you have agreed'.

But then French law effectively legalised such things by introducing the seven day cooling-off period after signing, which seems to have spawned a rather less gentlemanly culture.

So, without something in writing, I don't think they have much of a case. But on the other hand eviction of sitting tenants is far from simple (though again, a written agreement of some sort is probably required in order to prove things) and, moreover, the concept of squatters rights certainly exists in France. Also there is the matter of inheritance - I thought that if a child thought the parents were trying to do them out of their rights they could go to a tribunal and be awarded their share of the property, or equivalent compensation. I know one Frenchman who took his father to court over sale of a farm, and the father was forced, against his will, to sell to the son.

I totally agree - proper legal advice is essential.

[Alexis]

I had a friend in almost the same situation a few years ago.  Well, a bit different.

Your friends should be able to claim for all the expence and work carried out to improve the property. . .but could they then be charged back dated rent, for example?  Have they proof they paid for the materials etc?  They should be able to claim for a part of the increase in the property's value.  In a fair world, that is.

Very difficult.  Let us know what the Notaire says.

[Chancer]

Fil

You say that they have put a great deal of work into their part of the property but did they or the parents pay for the materials?

Arguably from the parents point of view they may have been living here rent, rates and services free for 4 years and now is the time to stand on their own feet at last.

Perhaps it was never meant to be a permanent thing, maybe a stepping stone that was at the time, mutually beneficial to both families, after all as has been said you cannot "verbally gift" or even sell part of a property.

In any case due to the stress and bad feelings towards the parents perhaps it is best that they now stand on their own feet, or are they perhaps still very young?

[Val_2]

Probably means the same as when used in employing someone, without actual written proof, you have no comeback here as verbal seems to count for nothing when it comes to arbitration. This is the reason why all important paperwork must be sent AR to the other party to proove they actually received it or not.

[Fil]

Hi,

thanks everyone for your input.  No, they are not that young (younger than me though!) and it was definitely said at the time that the house was being 'given' to them.  ie, rent has never every been mentioned, the husband's name is on the planning applications, when they went to get the fosse sorted at the Mairie the step father said that the house was theirs (ie my friend's, and not his) and my friends have paid for ALL the materials except for the front doors (in place of garage doors that were there) and the fosse.

My friend says they would absolutely NEVER have come if they had thought it could be taken away from them for any reason.  No way.  And now they are really not sure what is going on.  They have been doing some looking up, and think that they certainly have rights, but how they would stand as now apparently not being owners, but being 'rent free' tennants, they are not sure.

Fil

[Chancer]

Fil

What an awful situation and having reread your original post involving one child and another on the way.

If at the moment they are making life difficult but have not actually asked your friends to leave than of course obviously they must stay, it could be that the parents cannot actually force them to leave (and perhaps they know that).

If there is a possibility that after a lot of wearing down during her pregnancy your friend might give in and move out for the sake of her health, then perhaps now is the time to confront the issue and negotiate a paid withdrawal to avoid stress later.

Either that or to let them know that they know their rights (even if they don't) and won't be going anywhere, after all if I cannot evict a non paying tenant during the winter months I doubt that they can evict a pregnant family member.

Perhaps a visit to the social services to say we are about to be evicted might apprise them of their rights (although I am thinking in UK mode here) are they registered and paying social charges here? or in receipt of any other benefits?