Moving to France

[leonard]

I am planning moving/buying a house in France. Can someone tell me, I am not retired,  how long I can stay without work or what level of income I need  to show I have sufficient funds to live independently. Also what papers I need to get. I also understand you can stay without looking for work for I think 90 days at one time what is the maximum number of days you can stay in one year without working, for example can you stay 90 days return to England for say 30 days and return for another 90 days??

 

Quite a lot of  questions but have to start somewhere

 

[Dick Smith]

Are you a British citizen?

I have never even considered the question of how many days I can stay in France! I assume (come on TeamedUp and SD) that as long as I make no claims on the French state other than 'reciprocal' health care and earn no money, that is my business.

[Wozza]

Leonard

I have been here without working for 16 months - we only had to prove that we had savings when we registered with CPAM for healthcare, and a bank statement sufficed. Other than that, as a European, one is able to stay for as long as one pleases.

Whether you can afford to or not, is another question.....

I start looking for work when I recover from my hangover in January!

Warren

[powerdesal]

Warren,

Was/Is there a minimum level of savings required to be proven?

[Beryl]

I am pretty sure that if you are a EU citizen you have the right to stay as long as you want. If or when you do move here, regardless of whether you work in France or not or are living off savings you are required by law to complete a French tax return. You will also need to join the French health system at some point and if you are below compulsory retirement age, it is likely that you will have to contribute something to this. There are exceptions, but this is why the relevant bodies will want to see evidence as to what your financial means are.

I hope I have got that right, but hopefully Ron and  Sunday Driver will correct me if I have got it wrong.

 

 

[Wozza]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Warren,
Was/Is there a minimum level of savings required to be proven?
[/quote]

I don't know - they asked for a bank statement from the start of the previous tax year (not the current one), which for us showed a much healthier financial status, as it was prior to our house purchase! That was over a year ago and have asked for nothing since, except tax returns and a contribution to CPAM.

 

[Sunday Driver]

Welcome to the forum, Leonard.

Everything mentioned here is correct.

If you are an EU citizen, then you have the right to settle in France or any other EU country.  There are no barriers to doing so (you do not have to demonstrate a minimum level of income) and there are no complex border formalities - all you need to show is your passport.  Once you've arrived, you're here.  If you have sufficient resources to live here without working, then that's fine.  There's no need to return to the UK for any period of time.

As soon as you move here on a permanent basis, you are classed as French tax resident, therefore you must submit a tax declaration in the Spring following the date of your arrival.  You are also required to register for state healthcare.  If you are bringing your UK vehicle with you, then it must be imported and registered in France within a month of arrival.

The forum provides most of the information you'll need, so use the search function to look for topics of interest, then if you've any specify questions you can post again.

 

 

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

The point about CPAM wanting proof of savings is that, if you have no income, they need something on which to base the charges. (Broadly speaking!). Whilst you are free to live here, the French state is under no obligation to provide you with health care (although it rarely refuses).

 

[Ron Avery]

I heard today that the French are to re-introduce the requirement for a carte de sejour to be obtained for anyone wishing to move to and reside in France, now this may just be a rumour and illegal under EU law, but as the UK are seeking to limit the number of Eastern European EU citizens that can move to the UK, there must be a provision to do this.  The other rumour was in a post on here, are the French to ban the registration of RHD cars in 2007?  If they do, and it is impossible for a resident to register a RHD car even if they wanted to, will that not lead to just more French insurance companies insuring what are technically illegal cars?

Sorry the last bit is off topic but it is sort of legal [:P]

[Bugsy]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Sorry the last bit is off topic but it is sort of legal [:P]

[/quote]

It's also rubbish as Sunday Driver will shortly advise.

[Sunday Driver]

This is a myth which is current going around all the French forums.  I suspect it has resulted from someone misinterpreting the rules for driving a RHD UK registered car in France.

If you become resident here, you cannot drive your UK car here unless you import it and register it here. The insurance companies who were previously happy to provide unlimited cover for non-legal UK registered cars are now restricting cover to the legal timeframes allowed for registration.

This doesn't mean that you can't register a RHD vehicle here - only that you can't drive it here (permanently).

The car manufacturers who have invested millions in complying with EU Whole Vehicle Type Approval regulations will be glad to hear it's only a rumour....[;-)]

 

 

[Cassis]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

This doesn't mean that you can't register a RHD vehicle here - only that you can't drive it here (permanently).

[/quote]

I assume you forgot to add "unless it is registered here" to the end of that sentence, SD.

[Ron Avery]

Hi SD Thanks for the confirmation, it did seem a bit odd that it was mentioned in passing  on here, then nothing more said, however, I can assure you that a certain company with a very short name and a cross in it, is still insuring UK reg cars without any mention of a date for registration, despite being specifically asked if there was a time linit for registration, be interesting if a limit comes into play if there is a claim.

[Sunday Driver]

Well spotted, our little sausage....[:)]

 

 

[chessfou]

[quote]If you are an EU citizen, then you have the right to settle in France or any other EU country. [/quote] [SundayDriver]

Almost but not quite right. If you want to come and work here, that's fine. If you want to come and retire here (and you're over 65), that's fine too. However, there is another category (into which we fall) - retired/not working but under "retirement" age. There is an odd bit of EU law which applies to this small group (which may well include the OP) and we have no automatic right of abode (well, we do now and have done for a while since obtaining our Titres de Séjour), although almost certainly we could and would have "got away with it" had we chosen to ignore this bit of law*.

One of the things required for our Titres de Séjour was to demonstrate that we have adequate means to support ourselves. It never did quite become clear what level of income/resources was necessary for this (not least because we were way above whatever the threshhold might be). However, as a rule of thumb, €12,000 p.a. (perhaps adjusted for inflation) might be relevant since I know that figure was applied to several immigrants from the chess community back in the mid 1990s.

* I can't quote you chapter and verse but I did find a reference to it somewhere in these forums about a year or two ago.

[Sunday Driver]

You are right in that there is a general requirement for "inactifs" to demonstrate a minimum level of income (currently equivalent to the standard French old age pension) in order to obtain a titre de sejour.  However, as EU citizens are no longer required to hold a titre de sejour, then in practical terms, this mechanism for assessing income levels no longer exists.

 

 

 

[Will]

It doesn't only apply to 'inactifs'. When we all needed to apply for titre de sejour, we had to demonstrate that we were able to support ourselves, even those who are working (as with Mrs Will and myself).

Bring back that requirement, I say.

 

[Teamedup]

'Bring back that requirement, I say.'

 

 

 

Here here Will.

 

[Miki]

I think we have been here before peeps [;-)]

[leonard]

Thanks very much to all who have replied, I do not know protocol but do I reply to everyone who has been so helpful. I have a bag of other questions, but will post some later. Again thanks so much, I did not realise I would get so much help so quickly: excellent.

 

Len

[Sunday Driver]

Protocol is you put your virtual credit card behind the virtual bar and we help ourselves.  I'll have one of those drinks with an umbrella in it, ta......[;-)]

 

 

[chessfou]

[quote]You are right in that there is a general requirement for "inactifs" to

demonstrate a minimum level of income (currently equivalent to the

standard French old age pension) in order to obtain a titre de sejour. 

However, as EU citizens are no longer required to hold a titre de

sejour, then in practical terms, this mechanism for assessing income

levels no longer exists.[/quote]

Again, almost but not quite true (although, as I said above, it is a slightly grey area, in the sense that you might well get away without following the rules). See, for example, the EU web site:

http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/top_layer/index_15_en.htm

which says [i]If we so choose, we can decide to study, work, or retire in another EU country.[/i]

If you then delve further, you will find:

[i]Are you an EU national wanting to stay or live in another EU country?

You will have different options depending on how long you want to stay

and whether you will be working, a family member of somebody who is

working, unemployed, a student, retired, etc.

Click

on the following links to find out about your rights, what steps you

have to take, and the national rules in the county concerned.

• You are the worker (period of residence of more than 3 months but less than 1 year)
• You are the worker (period of residence of more than 1 year)
• You are the worker (extension of period of residence)
• You are the worker (permanent right of residence)
• You are a jobseeker
• You are a member of the workers family
• You are a student
• You are retired and want to reside in another Member State
• You are self-employed professional or services provider or recipient of services
• You belong to a different category[/i]

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/living/right-residence/index.html

Click through to the "different category" (i.e. relevant to "inactive") and you find:

[i]

YOUR RIGHTS

As a citizen of the Union, you may enter a Member State with a valid

identity card or passport and reside there for three months without any

formalities.

As a citizen of the Union who does not enjoy a right of residence

under any other provisions of Community law, you have a right of

residence in any other Member State on condition that you have

sufficient resources to avoid that you and the members of your family

become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member

State during your period of residence and you and the members of your

family are covered by sickness insurance in respect of all risks in the

host Member State.

Resources are deemed sufficient when they are higher than the level

of resources below which the host Member State may grant social

assistance to its nationals or if this criterion cannot apply when they

are higher than the level of the minimum social security pension paid

by the host Member State.

In order to obtain a residence card you may only be required to

present a valid identity card or passport and provide proof that you

comply with the conditions of residence. The validity of the residence

card may be limited to five years on a renewable basis. However, the

host Member State may, when they deem it to be necessary, require

revalidation of the card at the end of the first two years of

residence.

The residence card shall be issued and renewed free of charge or on

payment of an amount not exceeding that charged for the issue of

identity cards to nationals.

The right of residence is maintained for as long as you comply with

the above conditions. However, recourse to social assistance due to a

temporary difficulty may not entail your automatic expulsion from the

host Member State.

Subject to the above conditions and to any specific provisions

foreseen in the Treaty and in secondary legislation, you have the right

to equal treatment with nationals within the scope of the EC Treaty.[/i]

http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/en/citizens/living/right-residence/different-category/index_en.html

You can find (as we did when we moved here) much the same on the French Government web sites which made it quite clear that a Titre de Séjour was "required."

[powerdesal]

Chessfou,

Maybe I'm being a bit dense at the moment but my reading of your excellent info post is that my wife cannot spend the whole summer at our maison de vacance, the whole summer in our terms being approx 5 months. Is this a correct interpretation ?

[Teamedup]

Excellent and many thanks Chessfou.

So when it feels wrong to me that scroungers ask questions on here, then I am not really wrong in feeling like that. If they can't afford to live in France then the french government hasn't got to or at least shouldn't be paying for their health care etc etc etc........... that is good!

[chessfou]

[quote]Maybe I'm being a bit dense at the moment but my reading of your excellent info post is that my wife cannot spend the whole summer at our maison de vacance, the whole summer in our terms being approx 5 months. Is this a correct interpretation ?[/quote]

No idea what your circumstances are (except your reference to Sharjah which is currently a little bit outside the EU).

You need to draw your own inferences and conclusions from the regulations (they are quite different for non-EU citizens).