FRENCH LOCAL AUTHORITY CAN THEY FREEZE UK BANK AND SEND IN BAILIFF

[mike . w]

We owned a house in northern france until the beginning of 2006 at that time we sold the house to a french couple, it was our belief that all outstanding debts were disharged at that time, the notaire had delayed completion until all tax matters had been agreed and deductions made.

We are now living in UK and have recieved a demand for Tax Fonciere and Habitation for the period that we believe has been paid, we have written and explained only to be threatened with proceedings to freeze our bank accounts and to send in bailiff,s to recover the debt. Question can this be done , if it can does it require an English court order and if so do we have the right to argue our case.

Thanks for the reply,s  ignorance is not allways bliss  I think we will pay the bill without delay. mike.w

[Nick Trollope]

Yes, in theory (under the Hague Convention, I believe) - via the UK County Court.

If you sold the property on or after the 1st January 2006, you would be responsible for the taxes for 2006, payable during nov/dec 2006. Did you pay them a few months ago?

 

[LanguedocGal]

You are responsible for the Taxe d'habitation for 2006 (if you were there as of 1st Jan) but the Taxe Fonciere only up to the date the acte de vente was signed.  I bought in July and the split was made when the Fonciere bill arrived in September/October between the former owner and myself and % clearly shown. The notaire handled it all at no extra cost.

Contact the Conciliateur Fiscal of your department and provide them with copies of all correspondence.  They have the final say on these issues (I tried to get my high TF rating reduced – unsuccessfully but it amused me for a few weeks).   

http://www.impots.gouv.fr/portal/dgi/public/

To find the one in your former dept, see here. http://www2.impots.gouv.fr/liste-dsf-conciliateur/index.htm 

Also, contact the notaire that handled the sale for advice and the Taxe fonciere dept by phone. If your French isn’t good enough, find a French person (can’t be too difficult in the UK) and ask to speak to the boss.

[BJSLIV]

The bills always come to the owner as at 1st January , even though the bills don't come out until late summer. Its the responsibility of the 1st January owner to pay the bills , and to then recover what they can from their purchaser.

Unless you sold the property prior to 1st January 2006, then you are responsible for both sets of taxes. You may be able to recover the purchasers proportion of the taxe fonciere provided the notaire included provision for this in the sale documentation. You may also be able to avoid the taxe d'habitation if you can prove that the property had been completely emptied of furniture before the 1st  January 2006. You should look at the final account from the notaire they sometimes make an adjustment for the buyers share of the tax based on the previous year's bill.

 

[Teamedup]

You need a very detailed bill of exactly what the notaire charged you for and what the people who bought your house were charged for. You need to see if your notaire is holding this money and if they haven't paid it, maybe they were waiting for you to give them a copy of these bills? And if it were in the acte de vente that the purchasers pick up the bill for the part of the year from when they moved in, then they need billing, if they haven't already been billed.

I don't know how much the fisc will do other than bill you anyway if this is still owed. When we own/live in the property on the 1st of Jan then we are responsible for these bills for the whole year. It is marked so, on the back of these bills.

I imagine that the fisc don't care what other arrangements we come to via an acte de vente etc, they know who owes them and they bill that person accordingly. How the notaires sort this sort of thing out at the beginning of the year when the bill isn't due until the end of the year I don't know.

[Sunday Driver]

If you were the occupier of the house on 1 January 2006, then you are responsible for the tax d'habitation and tax fonciere and that is what you have been billed for.  Any subsequent sharing arrangements under the house sale are irrelevant to the tax office.  So, you need to pay those bills immediately to avoid having penalties added and your bank account potentially frozen.

You can then argue the toss with the notaire/previous owner about contributing a share towards the tax fonciere bill.

Get your cheque book out now.....

 

[Llwyncelyn]

If I were you and obviously I am not then I too would get my cheque book out and pay it for surely whilst its money it cannot be a huge amount?  Judgments can be obtained by the French Govt and as a contributor says via the County Court.  Indeed Northampton CC have a Money On-Line facility and you can get judgment in about 21 days or so.  Naturally the French Govt has civil servants based at their embassy and if they can be bothered they might push the point.

However forget the freezing of a bank account for that takes an order and not one necessarily from theCounty Court and is a huge step for anyone to attempt for the Judges (unless its drugs based) hate to touch one's bank account.

If they get judgment the judgment is sent to you and you have some time to pay.  No payment then Bailiffs who visit and ask nicely for the money.  If no payment then 'walking possession' itemise those items in your home including a car if you have two!  Days later walk in take the goods public auction to defray the judgment.

Pay up its better.

[Logan]

Yes this is a lawful debt from the information you have provided and you should pay. The advice given on here is good. If you allow things to deteriorate the French state could in theory run up huge legal costs with interest making the original sum irrelevant. Remember your first loss is always the cheapest

[5-element]

Mike - I assume that you do not still have a bank account in France? I gather from your  post that you don't...

If you do, then it can be frozen and seized by the Tresor Public, without any problem.

It did happen to me last year: a taxe d'habitation on a property that had nothing to do with me, but had belonged to my stepmother while she was alive, and passed on to her son at her death. We had slightly similar names, so it was a case of mistaken identity. Tax demands and warnings were evidently issued to my name, but sent to my old UK address - no idea how "they" found me, and I never received the demands. Imagine the shock when I received a letter from my bank informing me that all my (personal)accounts had been frozen, then from another bank, the joint account with my husband!

I had no idea whatsoever that I had been tracked down through my bank accounts, and without anyone checking first that I was aware that tax demand had been made of me for 4,000 euros.

It took a weekend of absolute anguish and many panicked phone calls, to sort it out. I was utterly shocked, and incurred bank expenses (which were subsequently reimbursed), as well as the possibility that all OUR accounts might be outlawed (sorry I don't know the right term in English, "interdit bancaire" in French), if we had been unlucky enough for any debit being made while the accounts were frozen.In the end someone realised a mistake had been made, I was assured that it happens fairly frequently, and yet no explanations, and no apologies whatsoever.

It made me realise how powerful the State is....

Presumably, "they" could not have done it if I had been still living  in England, without assets or bank accounts in France. Maybe.