house purchase

[Gwin]

[:'(]I made an offer on a house in Charante region early December 2006. Sent back Compremee with deposit. Since then have signed second contract after many delays caused by vendor.

Because i went to france 4 times hoping to complete transaction and to complete banking loan, I have now asked to be able to get the noteriee to sign on my behalf , that was months ago and still delays because vendor wouldnt answer letters or release keys for noteriee to take inventary, apparently a resequite to signing on my behalf.

Can I pull out of the sale as i feel vendor has broken contract, and i am really fed up being put off every time i phone.

[Anton Redman]

Why have been to France four times hoping to complete the transaction. ? I have bought and sold twice in France. Everytime the Notaire has scheduled a meeting,  I have turned up, signed the papers, received or paid money, ditto keys and that has been it.

If you dealt through an Estate Agent who was English speaking I would 'phone them and tell to do something.

If I dealt direct with the vendour or Notaire. I would find a native French speaker local to you in the UK and have him or her 'phone the notaire and ask them for a firm date.

In theory your deposit is 'liquidate damages' but I would not walk away from it. Also you are just comming up to the French holiday season when everything doies for six weeks.

 

[Gwin]

Anton, it isent me who fails to turn up or sign documents, didnt explain myself properly.

1,signed compreme before vendor and payed my deposit in December, compreme sent to vendor who held on to it for nearly 3 months, vendor not on phone and didnt answer noteire's letters.

2. When vendor was finally tracked down and signed the contract, he then sacked the noterie and new noterie is situated in the Nortn of France.

3. After many phone calls, yet another trip to France  I finally recieved completed documentation and swiftly sent back to notire.

4. Becaues of so much uncertanty I then asked if I could sign papers so that the notire could sign on my behalf, stupidly I thought this would speed up the process and allow me to complete quicker. (silly me)

5. The vendor has refused to give keys to his notire so that an inventary can be taken, apparently the notire will not send me the documents for signing on my behalf until an inventary has been drawn up and witnessed by a local notire.

6. Plans were organised for the local notie to go to house and do the inventory, and guess what No key.

7. More delays, finally keys produced and inventary done and after two weeks finally sent to notire in Northan France.

8. Now three weeks on and no legal papers sent to me and as you point out were now in French holiday time.

Really all I want to know is has this guy broken our legal contract after all it's over six months now and still no completion date in sight. Will I lose my deposit if I finally throw in the towel and admit defeat, or do I just hang in there.

Cheers Gwin

[Sunday Driver]

It may have been better for you to have retained the local Charente notaire to continue to act on your behalf when the vendor sacked him.  The notaires share the fees, so it wouldn't have cost you any more and the local man may have been more proactive in looking after your interests.

When you signed the original compromis de vente, it will have specified a date for completion, by which time the final acte de vente must be signed.  Whilst the completion date is generally flexible to allow for delays in the notaire completing the searches, etc  if there is an overrun due to the vendor's delaying actions, then you have a case for declaring the contract broken and you may withdraw without loss of your deposit.

That's said, you seem to be almost there.....

 

[Gwin]

The completion date was 29th May! hence my frustration, I just hope that all the legalities will not take much longer, it scares me to think that nothing will be done until the end of the French holidays, the delays are costing me money as well as my sanity.

Thanks  Gwin

[Nicos]

In our contract we agreed to allow the vendors to stay in 'our' house after the completion date until a set date ( for an agreed fee) and if they were still in the house after that then they would have to pay a daily fine at some unreasonably high fee.

We were told this was standard and ensured the vendor wouldn't be homeless if his purchase fell through, but the subsequent daily fine would encourage him to be out asap.

Infact they moved out well before the first date set.

I'd hang on in there as you are so near to getting your property!

[Anton Redman]

To whom did you pay the deposit. The first Notaire, The Vendeur or An Estate Agent ? 

Looking at you point 8 - three weeks delay at this time of year in France is not unsual / even particularly slow. I would hang on in there rather than abandon the deposit. 

[Gwin]

I paid the deposit to the estate agent, who is as frustrated as I am. She says she has never experianced such problems before. (Story of my life)

[Nick Trollope]

Being the suspicious sort, I'd smell a rat;

I can't see what the power of attorney has to do with the inventory. Yes, you need an inventory, and the Notaire won't write the final acte until he has it, but that wouldn't stop him from sorting out the PoA. Have you actually spoken to the Notaire? If not, do so now.

Also, make sure that the Agent has paid your deposit into a specific client account (as is required by law). I would never pay a deposit to an Agent, only a Notaire (and then only into their client account). Some may disagree, but it always pays to be safe.

So, write to the Agent and the Notaire (recorded delivery) giving them (say) 14 days to come up with a date for the signature on the final acte. Don't be fobbed off. If they don't/can't set a date or it passes without completion  insist on the return of your deposit and a further 10% from the Vendor, for breaking the terms of the compromis de vente. You can also claim reasonable out-of pocket expenses, or agents fees (which you may be landed with), but this make take the intervention of a court.

This is the system in France - stick to it and you (should) be OK. Often (usually) the threat of action will spur the Vendor into action.

 

[woolybanana (ex tag)]

Vendor is uncomfortable about the deal I suspect. Somebody has told him/her he could have got more money or a family member decided after the compromis that they wanted the house. Or maybe s/he regrets the sale. Don't like this business of changing notaires.

Whichever, this does not change your right to sign and have the property. The advice you have been given is right.

I am not sure about agents fees if things go wrong. It is the seller who pays in France, not the buyer.

By the way, it is NOT the job of a notaire to do inventories, though they might choose to do so, but rather a huissier of which there are numbers in each region. Check Pages Jaune

[Ron Avery]

"I am not sure about agents fees if things go wrong. It is the seller who pays in France, not the buyer."

Its actually the other way round, the buyer pays the fees in France

[Gwin]

[:(] have still not received any communication from notaire, or promised Power of Attorney and estate agent has not received promised keys,

I have now sent off registered letter to notaire insisting that I am given a firm date of completion and that if that is not forthcoming that I will take legal action to re claim my deposit plus 10% from vendor plus expenses incurred so far.

Estate agent has also written demanding firm completion date, so watch this space.

Gwin

[Athene]

I have read this thread Gwin and I wish you well. You have had a terrible experience! Let us know how you go on please. I wish you a speedy resolution one way or another!