Eurostar to Avignon

[Gardian]

Just a frustrated whinge really.

Our son & niece travelled down here on the Sats only non-stop service ex Waterloo to Avignon yesterday.  They loved the trip: much nicer than flying (both of them are iffy about it) and just 6 hrs. Civilised.  £200 each round trip.

However ............... I was staggered to learn that the train was barely half full, and at one of the busiest weekends of the year!  I expected it to be packed to the gunwhales.

What on earth are the Marketing people at Eurostar doing?  This service has been running for 5 yrs unchanged: that says it all really.  They need:

• A midweek round trip service to complement the Saturday (thus offering 'long weekend' options)
• An extension to the current July - early Sept schedule (many potential short break travellers want to come in May / Sept.
• A competitive pricing structure that will ofer an alternative to the l-c airlines.
• A sensible start time ex Waterloo (07.00 is too early for most except those in C London).
• A website for booking that matches their competitors - the current one is hopeless.

Anybody else feel the same way?   Is anybody from Eurostar listening?   Did I retire too early?

[Owens88]

They need:

• A midweek round trip service to complement the Saturday (thus offering 'long weekend' options)

• An extension to the current July - early Sept schedule (many potential short break travellers want to come in May / Sept.

• A competitive pricing structure that will ofer an alternative to the l-c airlines.

• A sensible start time ex Waterloo (07.00 is too early for most except those in C London).

• A website for booking that matches their competitors - the current one is hopeless.

I agree. I live in the Midlands of UK and it is really difficult to make a sensible schedule. I have an apartment in the south of France and would love to have a viable alternative to l-c planes (if only because of the environmental issues).  The train doesn't have to match but must at least complete. Eurostar act like an uncaring monopoly.

John

 

[KathyC]

Whilst not totally disagreeing with the above, it's worth saying that you can do the journey in about the same time (in one case less) by changing in Lille. I did a test run for September and came up with a fare of £160. Obviously you can combine this with the direct, summer, Saturday service if it fits in. I imagine that the early start for this service is to allow for people to make onward connections to other areas in the south. It's great not to have to change but changing platforms in Lille is really very little effort.

[Judith]

I've done this trip both ways, and it is much nicer and much more civilised not to have to change in Lille - though I agree the early start is a bit of a pain, and I live in central London.  Nothing against TGV, they are super, but  I hate the hassle of changing and waiting around.  Like Ian, I could never understand why they only ran it in the "summer" months - but I was told they could only get space on the lines then, which seemed the usual "excuse" reason.  I wish they would actually do more non-stop services Waterloo to other parts of France - now that would begin to compete with the L-c - but then they would also have to open up for bookings sooner than three months ahead - if in doubt, you book l-c, to be sure you can travel when you need to - as not all of us can be flexible about when we can travel - something called needing to work gets in the way!

[KathyC]

I think "hassle of changing and waiting around" is rather an exaggeration as you're only talking about changing platforms with 15/30 minutes between trains. I do it with a disabled husband and have to manage luggage etc. myself, so I think I'm being realistic. Changing in Paris, on the other hand, is a drag. I'm not surprised that people try to avoid this.

[Gardian]

John - they've talked for years about direct services from the Midlands and the North and this will become feasible once the St Pancras terminal is operational in 2008 (I think). Thus services will be able to connect in to the 'Channel Tunnel Rail Link' at London, but only from places currently served by 25kw overhead electric supply - this would rule out the MML to the likes of Leicester and Nottingham.

Kathy - I've used the 'change at Lille' option myself and agree that it's no particular problem. My point in the original thread was that a direct service from London is particularly attractive, especially for those who haven't tried it before and who might fret about these things.

Judith - the reason you were given for them not running the service out of season does, I agree, seem to be complete rubbish. There isn't an unlimited supply of available 'paths', but there is some spare capacity. As for the early start, their rationale is no doubt the need for the train to be back in London by 21.30.  Fair enough. However, the turnround is currently.nearly 2.5 hrs at Avignon - if they got their act together, that could be easily cut to an hour, thus enabling an 08.30 start from Waterloo.  Crew rest time shouldn't arise, because it's a French crew from Lille, thus it needn't be the same driver taking the train back up.

It all goes back to the original point: poor Marketing and an apparent lack of product development. No wonder Ryanair and easyjet have swept everyone aside. 

[Judith]

Kathy - I know it is a good change - the reason why I go to Lille and not Paris, the point being I dislike changing at all - and avoid if I can - and the times are not always only 15-30 mins - on my return it is generally nearly 2 hours wait.  Ian, yes, I felt they were excuse making and glad to have it confirmed, and I also agree about marketing and pricing.  The major problem at Avignon seems to be that it goes direct to the central station, and they are not geared up for the international passengers there - so it takes a long time to check everyone in.  (Though again that is an organisational problem not a real problem).  Going direct to Avignon Centre is great if you want to be in the Avignon area, as we did when we stayed there, but now I want to go to Narbonne, it would be better for me for onward transfers if it went to the TGV station - so connections were easier!  However, all the problems they pose are surmountable, and any reasonable person can see that they have a good product which is not being as well used as it should be.  And don't get me onto the catering - or lack of it, on both Eurostar and TGV - on a 6 hour journey, which is often what it is, I can never understand why you can't get a good meal - this is France after all!!!! 

[Gardian]

Re the catering, I understand that (in anticipation of my dire warnings) they took M & S sandwiches!  However, our son was additionally tempted by the 'Quiche & Chips'as a fill-up - rated at 5/10.

It's a shame really: captive audience, opportunity to serve something halfway decent, no real effort on the part of the operator.

Plus point: a 16.30 dep out of Avignon means a decent lunch in the town prior to setting sail. Dad (as usual) pays!

p.s. Ryanair report significantly increased Q2 earnings today.  By my (back of a fag packet) calculations, they and the other l-c carriers are moving 20k+ passengers / wk in to France (excl Paris).  Where are Eurostar in this? 

[Frederick]

I have regularly used Euostar to and from Paris......after your post Ian....and on reading the replies  I decided to look up the price and timetable Paris to La Rochelle and now know some are only 3 hours on a TGV and not very expensive .....and.... I can also go from Lille in 5 .....so this is a route I look forward to trying ......Perhaps Eurostar and SNCF  working  together  are happy to have people transfer onto TGV's  and other trains for their journeys within France .......