Diagnostique

[theboy]

We are selling one of our properties next year and have been told that after jan.11 we will need to produce a certificate diagnostique. Is this true, and what does it involve?

Regards, the boy

[P-D de Rouffignac]

It has always been the case that when selling a French property the owner has to commission and pay for a series of 'diagnostic surveys' including checking for the presence of lead, asbsestos termites etc. Recently added are tests of gas and electrical installations, and most recently the new 'energy performance' certificate (CPE), which provides a rating for the property and offers recommendations for improving energy efficiency with likely cost and resulting cost savings, for example from improving insulation.

Normally these tests were done when an owner had found a buyer (witten offer), as some of them are time limited and may have to be brought up to date if the property is a long time on the market, unsold.  The only thing that has changed after January 1 2011 is that the 'certificate of energy efficiency' is supposed to be available from the moment the property is first advertised for sale - i.e. placed with an estate agent or advertised privately. The idea is that a potential buyer has this information ahead of making a decision to buy or not.  

There are arguments for having the CPE done separately from the other tests or having them done all at once, questions of cost (savings). There are also discussions on whether the new recommendations are going to make any difference or not, particularly in the case of many holiday homes in the south that were designed primarily for occasional, summer occupation. I have also seen several recent energy efficiency certificates where the estimated cost savings are minimal, particularly when set against the cost of improvements (such as double glazing or roof insulation). See info on this and other forums.

Hope this helps - P-D de R.

[bubbles]

Thank you for such a clear explanation.

[theboy]

Many thanks for the detailed reply.

Regards, the boy.

[ignition]

Three agents are removing our property from their lists as we do not have a CPE (and recommending someone they know who can do it for us!) whilst one has stated that the new law has not yet been enacted! Also no info on the length of the survey and at what point it has to be done. Advice has been that like the termite survey this can be done after you have found a buyer and written into the contract. Sounds like jobs for the boys with agents getting a kickback...sorry, commission.

[Polly]

No, it's not 'jobs for the boys' as no-one connected with the sale can do the DPE, it has to be an independent qualified professional.

The DPE results must be included in the sales advert, be it online, in an agent's window or a 2-line newspaper classified.

Therefore it has to be done before you market the property.

Naturally the agents will be happy to recommend someone, most lay people don't know where to look; You are not obliged to go with that person. You can organise the DPE youself,  look under yellow pages (pagesjaunes.fr) or on google.fr for "diagnostic immobilier" and get some written quotes.

It's life, it's the law, moaning about it won't change anything, sorry!

[pachapapa]

[quote user="P-D de Rouffignac"]

It has always been the case that when selling a French property the owner has to commission and pay for a series of 'diagnostic surveys' including checking for the presence of lead, asbsestos termites etc. Recently added are tests of gas and electrical installations, and most recently the new 'energy performance' certificate (CPE), which provides a rating for the property and offers recommendations for improving energy efficiency with likely cost and resulting cost savings, for example from improving insulation.

Normally these tests were done when an owner had found a buyer (witten offer), as some of them are time limited and may have to be brought up to date if the property is a long time on the market, unsold.  The only thing that has changed after January 1 2011 is that the 'certificate of energy efficiency' is supposed to be available from the moment the property is first advertised for sale - i.e. placed with an estate agent or advertised privately. The idea is that a potential buyer has this information ahead of making a decision to buy or not.  

There are arguments for having the CPE done separately from the other tests or having them done all at once, questions of cost (savings). There are also discussions on whether the new recommendations are going to make any difference or not, particularly in the case of many holiday homes in the south that were designed primarily for occasional, summer occupation. I have also seen several recent energy efficiency certificates where the estimated cost savings are minimal, particularly when set against the cost of improvements (such as double glazing or roof insulation). See info on this and other forums.

Hope this helps - P-D de R.

[/quote]

Confused as to relevance of contrat première embauche.

[Quillan]

They just happen to use the same initials? I guess your talking about http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrat_premi%C3%A8re_embauche .

[Polly]

Typing error in p de d's post?

It is a DPE not a CPE in French (le Diagnostic de Performance Energétique)

[woolybanana]

Well, this energy certificate should cause a few problems, especially as the newer 'plastic' loft and wall insulation is not recognized but it almost universallly used. I think I would be very miffed if a survey refused to acknowledge its presence in some way and downgraded the insulation of the property as a result.

[Chancer]

Thankfully most of the new breed of diagnostiqeurs are not of the obsructive administration mindset, in most cases it is impossible to verify what insulation is behind the placo so they just ask you what is there.

A recent typical conversation:

what insulation is above there?

20cm laine de verre

Dommage, it should really be 24cms.

Oh I remember now it was indeed 24cm.

Dis donc c'est bien hien!

[Théière]

[:)]

Actis are currently seeking approval so keep your fingers crossed, DPE lasts for 10 years so you should be ok for the last 6 months [Www] if the french move with their usual efficiency.

[woolybanana]

So far the big competitors and producers of traditional insulation materials have fought tooth and nail to make sure the new products are not recognized, which has involved influencing the licencing authorities, as well as court cases.

[Ex Forum Admin]

There is an article here with information: 

DPE report needed when selling property in France