Simon-the-censored Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The following text appears on the BAA Heathrow Live Flight Information webpage:BAA Airports Limited does not verify the accuracy or completeness of this flight information and disclaims any implied warranties with regard to it. BAA Airports Limited shall have no liability for any loss or damage suffered as a result of relying on flight information on this site which may prove to be inaccurate or incomplete.You've got to ask - what's the point of it then? Barmy!Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Sure you gotta ask, but on the basis that they cannot guarantee anything would you rather they told you nothing ?A pretty standard disclaimer really so barmy, no, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Wow Another - you don't work for them do you?So - I own and operate an airport but I can't accurately tell you when the planes take-off and land. Furthermore I take no responsibility for the flight information I provide on my own website.....One heck of a 'standard' disclaimer!Mind you - they can't even cope with a bit of snow so not surprised they haven't got a clock either!Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Wow Another - you don't work for them do you? So - I own and operate an airport but I can't accurately tell you when the planes take-off and land. Furthermore I take no responsibility for the flight information I provide on my own website..... One heck of a 'standard' disclaimer! Mind you - they can't even cope with a bit of snow so not surprised they haven't got a clock either! Simon :-)[/quote]So it says that the flight from Doha will arrive at 16:00. There is a medical emergency on board and the plane lands at Frankfurt to offload the person and then has to wait 1.5 hours for a take off slot (happened on a flight that I was on).It says the flight to Toulouse will take off at 07:20. The flight crew, on carrying out their checks discover that there is a fault on the aircraft so they require maintenance to check over and repair the plane so 07:20 is wishful thinking.Do not think BAA have a crystal ball that good.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"] Mind you - they can't even cope with a bit of snow so not surprised they haven't got a clock either! Simon :-)[/quote] Oh so do you think Orly, CdG, Frankfurt and Schiphol managed to cope with the same bit of snow? I bet you're in with your mates in the Bundesrat who today are taking Deutschebahn to task for the late performance of the trains in December - of course they were all on holiday in December - probably the Carribean - and never realised that there had been a bit of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 PaulT - I'm not interested in delays, diversions and crew pre-flight checks, or indeed the myriad of other reasons flights are late!It would just be nice to know the ACTUAL flight departure and arrival times in REAL TIME and know they are accurate. Obviously just far too difficult for BAA to provide this in-depth level of detail !!! (not)Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 andyyh4 - I was referring to LHR - not really interested in what goes on at other airports - unless of course they're in the Caribbean where I go on holiday!....a little bit of snow...pathetic.Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]PaulT - I'm not interested in delays, diversions and crew pre-flight checks, or indeed the myriad of other reasons flights are late! It would just be nice to know the ACTUAL flight departure and arrival times in REAL TIME and know they are accurate. Obviously just far too difficult for BAA to provide this in-depth level of detail !!! (not) Simon :-)[/quote]So you do think they have a superb quality crystal ball.If you look at say departures, they will show a scheduled time but things happen to cause delays - have you never been waiting on a plane and they are still trying to find the last passenger. If they do not then they have to unload bags etc so the scheduled time becomes a thing of the past and then they have to wait to get a take off slot and eventually take off.For departures it will show whether it is boarding, taxiing or taken off and the times.Similarly, a flight across the Atlantic might have had a strong tail wind so the aircraft arrives ahead of schedule OR it has battled a stong head wind and falls behind schedule.Now, if the Met Office cannot forecast weather to a high degree of accuracy what hope for BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 PaulT - not really sure what you're going on about! My original posting is about the BAA disclaimer and the fact that they take absolutely zero responsibility for the accuracy or completeness of the information they provide.Quite obviously (and regularly) planes arrive and depart off-schedule - it would just be helpful if the information provided was in real-time, accurate and that the BAA did take responsibility for it.Simon :-)PS: Naughty passengers being late - they should at the very least be shot...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Not really sure what the point of your post is, Simon....[;-)] No organisation anywhere in the world, of whatever nature, will ever, can ever, guarantee that all its information is always 100% accurate. Given the huge number of flights arriving and departing from Heathrow every day, I think they do pretty well on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Maybe Simon was doing his once a year flight and was peeved that the airport could not guarantee that the airline would fly to schedule. From the various comments I think the rest of us have a bit more experience of flying and the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Streason Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Wind-up alert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]it would just be helpful if the information provided was in real-time,[/quote]So you'd rather the board said nothing until a plane had actually landed or taken off then because that's the only thing which is 'real time'.Just pause for a moment and put yourself in their place. If you were running an airport and beholden to 101 external influences every minute of the day, nearly all of which were completely outwith your control such as weather, aircraft technical problems, late or non arrival of self loading freight at the gate (airline parlance for passengers!), etc. etc. etc., would you be prepared to guarantee arrival or departure times and suffer the legal and financial consequences of being late ?One of the biggest problems of course is the passengers themselves. When you listen to the PA in any typical airport at least half the announcements are calls for missing checked in passengers who delay flights which can result in missed take off slots and lost time which may never be made up, how is that the airport operators fault ?Oh, and I don't work for BAA, nor even an airline, but I am a frequent flyer and do realise and accept that neither can be expected to run like clockwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 KathyFI own LHR airport and I'm sitting beside the runway.A plane takes off - I record the time it did that and post it on my website. A plane lands - I record the time it did that and record it on my website.Why on earth wouldn't I be able to guarantee the accuracy of that information?A plane lands, a plane takes off - it either did or it didn't.That's my point - simples!!!Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 andyh4 - you're obviously a frequent flyer and I bow to your global experience.I'm just a mere mortal who worked in the air for BA for 23 years - please excuse my inexperience, I am not worthy.....Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Another - what are you talking about? You are completely missing the point....I just want them to tell me when a plane has taken off or when it has landed and - guarantee that the info is correct.How on earth can the guys that own and operate the airport absolve themselves of the responsibility of accurate, actual flight information?Let's get a grip shall we....Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Please read my original post before going off at a tangent......Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]KathyFI own LHR airport and I'm sitting beside the runway.A plane takes off - I record the time it did that and post it on my website. A plane lands - I record the time it did that and record it on my website.Why on earth wouldn't I be able to guarantee the accuracy of that information?A plane lands, a plane takes off - it either did or it didn't.That's my point - simples!!!Simon :-)[/quote]Ah, but the problem is that you don't record the timings yourself. IIRC, you get the information from a variety of sources (some of which may be your staff; others of which are not), many of whom input that data directly into the system, and you don't have the resources to check that data. The most accurate data I see are on ACARS-driven sites such as radarvirtuel.RegardsPickles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Pickles - not good enough. BAA own the airport and should therefore be responsible and accountable for the basic information they provide.I use www.flightradar24.com which uses ADS-B.Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]It would just be nice to know the ACTUAL flight departure and arrival times in REAL TIME and know they are accurate.[/quote]Well in my experience they do, or as near as makes no difference. I routinely travel through Aberdeen, LHR, Paris, and Amsterdam, where boards are updated to show actual times of landings and departures so what else are you looking for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Another - you STILL don't get it do you?I'm talking about the disclaimer on the BAA flight info website (look at my original post) - not the flight info boards!How on earth can the BAA state that their flight information may be 'inaccurate or incomplete' ?Give me strength......Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Airport boards - flight information website, probably both inextricably tied into the same data sources, why wouldn't they be ?[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]How on earth can the BAA state thattheir flight information may be 'inaccurate or incomplete' ?[/quote]Because it can come from diverse 3rd, 4th, 5th parties, who knows, so it can only be passed on by BAA and not guaranteed, I don't see what's so hard to comprehend about that ?I'm sure if you read BAA's T&C's for the actual airport they wouldsay something identical or very similar, a standard disclaimer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Another - you STILL don't get it do you? I'm talking about the disclaimer on the BAA flight info website (look at my original post) - not the flight info boards! How on earth can the BAA state that their flight information may be 'inaccurate or incomplete' ? Give me strength...... Simon :-)[/quote]I do not know but presume that the taxiing and take off times come from Traffic Control which I believe is not operated by BAA, so as AnOther says how can they guarantee thrid party information.Perhaps if you looked at other companies disclaimers you will find that there will be similar clauses.You only have to look at this forum with information coming from third parties, i.e. the members, is that always accurate. I belong to car forums and there is always a disclaimer with techincal adivce 'that you take it at your own risk'.And with your 23 years experience with BA, do they inform BAA 'we will be late taking off because we cannot round up some of our passengers so please amend your information boards'?Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkkent Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 SimonBAA own the airport - the real estate. They sell access to their property - that's all. They don't operate the flight services, they don't operate the air traffic control. All of the information required to provide you with the information you seem to want comes from the airlines or from ATC. BAA's information is second hand, it is subject to other agencies providing it. Their disclaimer is therefore reasonable.If you want reliable information, why don't you visit the airline's website? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon-the-censored Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 I am BAA, I own and operate LHR - but I can't guarantee the accuracy of the flight information I provide....barking !Simon :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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