When did the last war end in Languedoc?

[nomoss]

I was walking past the war memorial on the main road the other day when I noticed that there is a shiny new black plaque with gold lettering mounted near the bottom, commemorating those killed in the last war. However, at the top is engraved  "1939    1940", although the dates of some of the deaths are after 1940.

As the plaque is relatively new I had a look on Google Earth Street View, dated 2009 for this area, and saw that there was previously a whitish stone plaque there, but the image is too indistinct to read the dates on it. I wondered if somehow there had been a mistake when the original plaque was replaced.

Next time I was in the Mairie I happened to see the Maire, and pointed out that it said 1939 - 1940. He replied that he knew.

When I asked why it said 1940 and not 1945, he didn't really give me any explanation, and said that the new plaque had been copied from the old one.

I asked if it was going to be corrected, but he just said something like they would look into that, and didn't seem inclined to discuss it any further.

I have now realised that France surrendered on June 6th 1940, so as far as Vichy was concerned, that was when the war ended, which is probably the reason for the date.

Any ideas?

 

 

[idun]

Vichy France didn't last that long? did it? I'll have to look it up, but I know that where I lived had been Vichy France, but the germans moved in within a couple of years. So wasn't France at war with Germany then???? 

[nomoss]

[quote user="idun"]Vichy France didn't last that long? did it? [/quote]

Just over four years, officially

"Vichy France, officially The French State (l'État français), was France during the regime of Marshal Phillipe Pétain, during World War II, from the German victory in the Battle of France (July 1940) to the Allied liberation in August 1944".

Source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France

 

 

[Cendrillon]

We have the same dates on the war memorial in our village (17) as well.

[idun]

I looked up the actual date that the germans invaded vichy France and significantly it was the 10th of November 1942, I imagine so that they were in charge for the 11th!

I don't actual get why it was still Vichy France 'officially'. I'm sure in all other occupied countries including occupied France, then the germans were in charge of the local officials. So what difference specifically for Vichy France?

[Gardian]

I can strongly recommend 'England's Last War Against France' by Colin Smith - subtitled 'Fighting Vichy 1940 - 1942'

It covers the conflicts in Algeria, Madagaskar & the Middle East during that time.

Might help to explain some of the commemorations and the sensitivity towards someone British.

[nomoss]

[quote user="Gardian"]

I can strongly recommend 'England's Last War Against France' by Colin Smith - subtitled 'Fighting Vichy 1940 - 1942'

It covers the conflicts in Algeria, Madagaskar & the Middle East during that time.

Might help to explain some of the commemorations and the sensitivity towards someone British.

[/quote]

 

Yes, regrettable. We lived near Oran for a while, shortly after independence, and went to look at Arzew. C De Gaulle didn't know which side he was on at that time, even though the Vichy French did. "I hope the Vichy people will fling them into the sea! You don’t get France by burglary!" he reportedly said when told of the Allied landings in N Africa.

Thank you your recommendation.

 

 

[idun]

Decisions we 'little' people don't have to make.

Should the french fleet have been bombed???? I have read a few things over the years about this, and believe that we and eventually France was better off with the decision to attack it. And I don't believe that this was done lightly. The alternative was after all increasing the size of the german fleet.

[nomoss]

I read a résumé of the book you recommended, but decided that I don't want to pay £15 or so to add more to what I have already read/heard on the subject, and the book also sounds rather one sided.

Being of the same generation as myself, I'm sure the Maire is as little interested in discussing the war as I am. I was simply surprised that the conflict was dated as being until 1940, when casualties after that date were commemorated on it. Maybe it was a political thing in our town; I'll check the date on the other nearby memorials.

I regard the fact that British Royal Navy casualties at Mers El-Kebir (but not land casualties) were nil as admirable, since my father was in the RN in the Med. at that time, and we all made it back safely from Malta.

Amazon's description of the book ends:-

"France's maritime massacre and the bitter, hard-fought campaigns that followed rarely make more than footnotes in accounts of Allied operations against Axis forces. Until now."

That's a bit arrogant, and not really correct. There is plenty of published information, for example the account in the link below, which may balance what seems to be the aim of Mr Smith's book. I have chosen a what I feel is a good place to begin.

http://www.worldwar2plus55.com/dl07no42.htm

 

 

[nomoss]

Apologies, the link I provided above is incorrect; it covers the landings in N Africa in 1942, not the sinking of the French Navy's ships in Mers el Kebir in 1940.

The latter operation is described here, seemingly from a French point of view, and attempting to cover the political manoeuvring, considerable misunderstandings, lack of communication and possibly deliberate obstruction at the time. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Mers_el-K%C3%A9bir

Speaking to a friend today, he told me that the last war is generally referred to in France as "La Guerre de 1940", as distinct from "La Guerre Mondiale de 1939 à 1945".