Paying your bills

[John & Norma]

Im writing this as a pay back for all the help/advice I found on this site 8 years ago when we bought our house in France.

For the last 5 years we have both been retired and therefore spend 2 weeks or so every month in France.

To those of you contemplating buying or who have just bought I thought I would tell you how we handle the bills for our property.

Online using a credit card: Veolia water and Gaz de France. Never had a problem. We arent online in France but our local bar has wi-fi. We have the bills sent to our UK address but each bill has the date of the next one on it so you know when to go online.

This leaves Electricity, both taxes and house insurance. All these we pay from our bank account with Britline (TIP and cheque).

For 8 years we have never had a problem transfering money from the UK to the bank via sending Euro Traveller's Cheques. You sign them twice and make them out to your account name so if stolen they cant be used. Normally it only takes 4 to 5 days (not working days) from posting to being in our account. The original bank to bank transfer we did to pay for the house took more than 10 days and cost an arm and a leg.

In this time we have found that the UK Post Office offers one of the best exchange rates and no commision but it does take some time at the counter for them to organise their rubber bands etc. However, the Post Office credit card is one of the few cards that dont make a charge for foriegn transactions. An aside here: it is useful to have another type of card in case yours gets rejected in France. As an example, on our way home we call at a petrol sation and a hypermarket and at both we have found that we can use only certain machines with the Master Card.

We are about to return to France for a brief visit whilst we have a new boiler installed and we needed to get a larger than usual amount of euros into our bank. I spotted that the good (old) Post Office are quite aggressive (The Post Office aggressive??) to get our type of business. If you have a Post Office Master Card you can now buy euros (currency or TC) online and there is no charge. That is no handling fee, etc and no cash charge - the transaction is treated as a normal sterling purchase! And they will deliver to your door free if ordering £500 or more the next day. (Or to your local PO which I prefer.) So cash on credit! The limit is £2,500 per two weeks.

This takes all the pressure off. And no rubber bands!

A last aside. One Year In Provence!! Good book etc but in our experience in rural northern France we have received nothing but exceedingly prompt, professional and curtious service when dealing with plumbers, electrians, builders etc. The only problem is a relaxed attituted to paying: our boiler man said "anytime within the next month or so after installation". It took me months to pay the chimneysweep as he visited us when we werent there and didnt leave an invoice. 

[Simon-the-censored]

Hi John and Norma

Wow - I appreciate you're trying to be helpful but...there are seriously more simple ways of doing these things.

Here's some ideas for speeding things up and cutting out the paperwork!

Payments - just use direct debits (including the new pan-european SEPA ones) - spreading payments monthly if you prefer. ALL the French services you mention above accept this form of payment.

Transferring Funds - there are many currency agencies (HIFX, currencies direct etc etc) who offer an on-line transfer facility. Normally into the recipient account within 3 days. Just shop around for the best exchange rates. All the companies that state 'no handling charges, fees etc simply build their commissions into this rate. Also - most UK banks offer an instant on-line overseas transfer facility - not great rates but it's there if you need it.

Simon:-)

[PaulT]

John and Norma - some food for thought. How exactly does the pan European direct debit work - are you doing it using euros from your UK bank and if so how does the exchange rate compare with other methods.

Simon - how about banks charging to receive the funds. No direct experience, just posts by others on the forum.

As for the Post Office they do seem to give good rates.

Always paranoid about staying in the black with our French account. Things were getting a little low and should have been fine until our next visit. However, a couple we know whose French house is near ours (as is their English house) were going down so asked them to drop some money in to our bank. Travelex on line gave a very slightly better rate and it was very slight than the PO. However, it would have meant parking at Gatwick to collect it so overall a higher cost than just popping in to the PO to collect - and yes we could have had it delivered but that means someone being there to accept it.

Paul

[Simon-the-censored]

PaulT - just talk to your French or UK Bank about SEPA direct debits (or google them!). We bank with credit Agricole and they sent us a full explanatory leaflet last month. If you DON'T have a French Bank account then it's a good way to set up a direct debit on your UK account for payments in France. Not particularly cost effective due to exchange rates but I guess you need to weigh up the costs of time, postage, credit card charges etc for other methods.

Credit Agricole make no charges to receive funds. They do charge you for sending you a credit advice BUT you can simply cancel this facility - especially if you use their on-line banking (no point in them sending you a letter to tell you you've been credited!).

I find it difficult to understand why people still order foreign currency from the Post office / Travelex. You may find that simply withdrawing from Cash Dispensers using a debit card offers just as good a rate - depends on the type of account you hold and the charges associated with it. Anyway - you should take euros out of your French account!

Simon :-)

[PaulT]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]PaulT - just talk to your French or UK Bank about SEPA direct debits (or google them!). We bank with credit Agricole and they sent us a full explanatory leaflet last month. If you DON'T have a French Bank account then it's a good way to set up a direct debit on your UK account for payments in France. Not particularly cost effective due to exchange rates but I guess you need to weigh up the costs of time, postage, credit card charges etc for other methods. Credit Agricole make no charges to receive funds. They do charge you for sending you a credit advice BUT you can simply cancel this facility - especially if you use their on-line banking (no point in them sending you a letter to tell you you've been credited!). I find it difficult to understand why people still order foreign currency from the Post office / Travelex. You may find that simply withdrawing from Cash Dispensers using a debit card offers just as good a rate - depends on the type of account you hold and the charges associated with it. Anyway - you should take euros out of your French account! Simon :-)[/quote]

We do have a French bank and find that inpite of the charges Nationwide still proves the best way of drawing cash and paying directly in to the account. However, when not in France it is a problem as cash dispensers in the UK only issue Sterling. So when you do need euros then the PO provides good rates.

Paul

[Simon-the-censored]

PaulT - ahhh sorry about that - I didn't realise you needed euros in the UK - my mistake.

Simon:-)

[Judith]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]

Credit Agricole make no charges to receive funds. [/quote]

They do if it is large enough amount, as we found when I transferred a large sum. 

As always, it depends on how much and when and what access you have.  I am afraid I am no lover of money brokers - my experience with them has on the whole been negative and I find them far too pushy.

I ask, why has there suddenly arrived so many brokers in a market place which was once (10-15 years ago bare of their services?)  Answer - they are there to make a profit .... and when people like yourself sell them so strongly, as they do themselves, I turn away ... oversell is the best way to stop me using a service, and they all do it.

[Simon-the-censored]

Judith - sorry but you're wrong.

I'm just looking at Credit Agricole's charges sheet for 2010 (haven't had the 2011 one yet so I stand to be corrected if it's changed in the last month or so).

They DO NOT make any charges to receive electronic funds, in Euros, from anywhere within the SEPA (Single European Payments Area) - of which the UK is part. No limits.

Secondly - I'm not 'selling' anything or anybody. 'People like me' are simply offering advice based on experience - just like you are. I have used HIFX for over 10 years and have found them to be superb. I'm happy with both their rates and services - simple as that. Nothing wrong with making a profit!

Simon :-)

[Sunday Driver]

CA (Deux Sevres) 2011 tariffs:

Receiving a SEPA funds transfer in Euros - up to 50K is free, over 50K costs 11,75€

Sending a SEPA funds transfer in Euros - up to 50K costs 3,80€, over 50K costs 17,70€

I recently sent 20K to a German motor dealer via SEPA.  Cost me 3,80€ and the funds were in his bank the following morning.  Can't really complain about that.....[8-|]

[Simon-the-censored]

Hi - just found the CA Normandie / Britline Charges for 2011.

http://www.britline.com/pdf/principal_banking_fees_january_2011.pdf

As you'll see all Euro transfers received from an account in France or the SEPA zone are FREE. No limits. page 2.

BIC / IBAN Transfers are FREE up to 50,000 Euros with amounts over this charged at 18.58 Euros per transfer in. also page 2

Maybe Judith was ripped off ? Also looks like she's had a bad experience with a currency broker.

Simon :-)

[Judith]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Hi - just found the CA Normandie / Britline Charges for 2011.

http://www.britline.com/pdf/principal_banking_fees_january_2011.pdf

As you'll see all Euro transfers received from an account in France or the SEPA zone are FREE. No limits. page 2.

BIC / IBAN Transfers are FREE up to 50,000 Euros with amounts over this charged at 18.58 Euros per transfer in. also page 2

Maybe Judith was ripped off ?

No - it was over 50K, so what SD says goes, not all CA's are the same, as we have often said.  Won't be any more now ....

Also looks like she's had a bad experience with a currency broker.

Simon :-)

The only time I tried to use one (for our first house purchase here) they needed money so far in advance, etc, up front, etc, and the paperwork became stupid.  In the end, we used the bank - quicker, easier (only one form - they already had our ID of course), the rate was acceptable to us and very close to any a broker had offered, and it was done.

[/quote]

I used another broker once to move some money, testing the system.  Well, yes, it worked all right, but there were some minor problems which caused me more stress than I needed for such a small test, but my bank would have been as quick and I would have had the commercial rate on the day, and it would have happened when I wanted it to.  Thus I prefer to stay with the one I know - each time I have used my bank it has all gone as planned and expected. 

That is why I said what I did.

[Simon-the-censored]

Judith - I think you may find things have moved on since you purchased your first house in France. I do all my currency transactions myself on-line and they work just fine - no deposits, no paperwork and very, very quick. The rates are always better than a bank.

Just to reiterate - Credit Agricole impose NO FEES for receiving electronic (on-line) transfers in Euros from French or any SEPA account. Even if you use an IBAN / BIC transfer for amounts over 50,000€, the most you will pay is 18,58 € - less than a 0.04% charge - beat that!

Just wanted to be clear :-)

Simon :-)

[Judith]

SEPA can only be used if the amount is under £50K.  If it is more, they charge - usually more than £18.50.  Mine did.

[Simon-the-censored]

Judith - No so - try HSBC next time - they have no limit on the amount of a Euro SEPA Credit Transfer. And.... Credit Agricole do not charge to receive them.

Maybe you made your transfer in Sterling ?

Simon:-)

[cooperlola]

I posted this elsewhere but note that CA Britline are not charging for receiving Sterling transfers either until the middle of March.

[Judith]

[quote user="Simon-come-lately"]Judith - No so - try HSBC next time - they have no limit on the amount of a Euro SEPA Credit Transfer. And.... Credit Agricole do not charge to receive them.

Maybe you made your transfer in Sterling ?

Simon:-)[/quote]

No.

As I said before - each CA region is different.  What applies in yours does not nec apply in mine.  You are (I suspect) Midi Pyrenees, I am Languedoc - different beasties, different rules.

[Shoop]

Ok Simon have i got it right, i usually top up my CA account by using the cash machines in France and physically paying euros in to avoid paying transfer charges, can i now on-line transfer money from my HSBC sterling account direct to my CA euro account without occuring charges at either end, using SEPA credit transfer?

 

                                                                            Steve

[Quillan]

Perhaps it might be better if you look at what SEPA really is and how far it has actually gone, you might try googling it but basically it covers

• For credit transfers: SCT – SEPA Credit Transfer
• For direct debits: SDD – SEPA Direct Debit. Banks started to offer this service from November 2, 2009.
• For cards: SEPA Cards Framework

and the deal is it should cost you no more to transfer Euros within the EU as it does to transfer money from one back to another across the road in the same country even though it may be in a different currency. Of course inside the Euro zone this has been the case for some years now but it never none Euro EU members such as the UK.

Below are some links you may find interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area (this link is a little out of date)

http://www.ukpayments.org.uk/payment_options/cross_border_payments/single_euro_payments_area_(sepa)/

http://www.experian.co.uk/payments/quick-links/sepa-payments.html

The whole thing should be completely up and running between 2013 and 2014 although some bits are working already but you need to consider that it is for Euros which means you first need to convert from say Sterling to Euros before you send the money. In the UK this is almost transparent in that you tell your bank you want to send 100 Euros to a French bank and it will do that and at the same cost for sending money 'across the road' however, and this is where they will probably end up clawing back their money, they are not limited on what they can charge to convert your Sterling in to Euros before it enters the SEPA system which as I said you must do. This is why some 'popular' debit cards dropped zero charges on you drawing money out of a French bank using your UK debit card but that's another rather complex story.

[Simon-the-censored]

Shoop - log on to your HSBC account, select the account you want to transfer from, select 'send money overseas' (on the left menu) and follow the instructions. You'll need a CA account RIB.

The bank exchange rates won't be nearly as good as some of the currency brokers - that's how they build in their fees. But - it;s very straight forward - much less hassle than drawing cash from a dispenser and paying it in!! Can't believe anyone does that :-) Must cost a fortune in time, fuel and cash withdrawl fees / poor rates.

My CA don't charge for the receipt of funds and my HSBC account doesn't make a charge for the transfer - hidden in the exchange rate no doubt!

Good luck / Simon :-)

[Shoop]

Thanks for your advice Simon, went on-line and followed your instructions, couldn,t make a transfer as its only available 8am-3-30pm, but did read the FAQ,s regarding costs which read " if your payment is under £2000 and in local currency to a Worldplay country or in Euros to a Eurozone country the charge is £9, all other payments made by sole traders will be £17, so i,ll give my branch a ring for further details.......thanks for your help Shoop