Gooliegumdrop Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I have reviewed a few of the self–study French language courses currently available. These reviews are based purely on my own humble opinion; but I hope some of you might find the information useful all the same. Talk French Isabelle Fournier· Publisher: Hodder Arnold H&S, 2004 · ISBN: 0563471026RRP. £14.99The BBC ‘Talk’ series of language courses are brilliant for the absolute beginner. They make clear use of basic language, i.e. ‘Where can I find the library?’ or ‘Do you sell English newspapers?’ etc. It demonstrates how to use a very limited vocabulary in order to get by. Only very basic grammar is taught, so this short course is ideal for those with absolutely no previous knowledge of French. It is available on Amazon for under £10, making it excellent value. The only downside is the excitable and shrill (if not mind-numbingly grating) voice of the female presenter. Voila: A Course in French for Adult Beginners Crispin Geoghegan, J.Gonthier Geoghegan · Publisher: Hodder Arnold H&S, 2004 · ISBN: 0340883030 RRP. £32.99This course is again good for beginners, but is more thorough than Talk French so should take you up to intermediate level. The audio recordings are clear and concise, and relative to everyday French life (including a section on motoring). However, the layout of this course is geared more towards classes than self-study, so you may find some of the grammar explanations bewildering at times. Breakthrough French 1: Euro Edition Stephanie Rybak · Publisher: Palgrave Macmillan, 2004 · ISBN: 1403942617 RRP £39.99There is a lot of audio included in this course, making it excellent value for money. However, the dialogue (which claims to be authentic) comes at a rapid pace, with a mixed array of accents! Although there are some ‘practice exercises’ recorded at a more comfortable pace, thus making them more comprehensible! The grammar explanations given throughout are good and not too complex, and this course is definitely geared towards the self-study learner. There is also a Breakthrough French 2 & 3 available for more advanced learners, which also come highly recommended. French Experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Will Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I can't comment on the others, because I am not familiar with those particular programmes, but I feel the review is rather unfair to the Michel Thomas course. I can understand why it is not popular with conventional teachers, because it doesn't bother with (in fact it actually discourages) written work, exercises and revision. However, it works, and that is why it is popular with celebrities and other busy people. It doesn't offer, or claim, fluency - how could it in eight hours? - and, at least as far as the full CD or cassette course is concerned, it doesn't pretend to, as there is very little emphasis on grammar. What it does provide is the confidence to converse, and the ability to be understood as well as useful pointers to help understand the other side of the conversation. This latter is where most such courses fall down badly, in fact the better the French person to whom you are talking thinks you are, the faster thay will talk and the more obscure will be the words used, whhich can be counter-productive. Far from being a bumbling German with two dozy students Thomas' programmes are in fact very cleverly structured. With an instructor who sounds like an ordinary, friendly person passing on his knowledge to two students, one of whom is quick on the uptake, with a reasonable accent, and the other is probably deliberately rather less able, we find ourselves automatically striving to emulate the better of the pair - and we end up with the ability to cope with many everyday situations and the confidence to find the words to cope with others.That's why I like the Michel Thomas course. I did try an earlier version of the BBC one some years ago and did not warm to it for the same reasons mentioned in the review, despite having a good grounding in French vocabulary and grammar at school (from a teacher who had written another recognised French text book). Although Michel Thomas is over twice the price, to me it is infinitely better value as I actually got something out of MT - in fact several times more than I got from any other learning materials.The Thomas course does have one serious disadvantage compared with more conventional methods and that is that it appears to offer very limited scope for further learning beyond conversational (and not particularly grammatical) abilities. For written French, dealing with different tenses of verbs, etc then there seems to be no alternative to traditional learning. Thomas offers something up to a particular point which, though 'miracle' is an exaggeration, is likely to provide a high degree of success with those who may lack the motivation, time or concentration to learn from text books or more conventional audio methods.If value and/or low cost is the important consideration though, I'd go for conversation classes with a native French speaker any time. Many organisations run these in France, as well as via adult education classes in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gooliegumdrop Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Yes, I knew I would be courting controversy with my review of the Michel Thomas course. And fair enough, maybe my comments are a little on the harsh side; like I said, if the technique works for you, then great! Especially if it instills enough confidence in the learner to have a crack at using the language for real. It has to be remembered however, that no single language programme on its own is going to achieve miraculous results. I feel the marketing and hype associated with this course may lead the beginning learner to believe otherwise. However, a lot (if not most) of the people I know who have ever wanted to learn a language have tried Michel Thomas at some time or another. Indeed many have found aspects of the course very helpful, but non have advanced much beyond a basic level on the basis of this course alone. At the same time, there are others who found the content difficult to connect with, and therefore not appropriate for their needs. But of course, this could be said of any method, since what works for one learner may not work for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Will Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 "...many have found aspects of the course very helpful, but non have advanced much beyond a basic level on the basis of this course alone." I'd thoroughly agree with that. In fact I don't see how the Michel Thomas methods can teach other than the rudimentary conversational aspects. But then conversational French is much more than many native English speakers have, even a lot of those who live here. That may sound a bit harsh, patronising even, but it's true. I don't count myself as being a good French speaker, particularly where the intricacies of grammar are concerned, but feel that I can cope with most normal situations.I do believe that confidence is the one really important factor, which is very difficult to achieve from home study methods unless you have a particularly oversized ego that will withstand being knocked for six the first time you try it out. Thomas is the only one that I have found that seems to recognise this, as borne out by his advice in the early stages of the course that a very large percentage of words are the same in both English and French, so if you don't know the word, just say the English word in the French way. It may be pretty useless some of the time, but there's nothing to lose, and a pretty good chance that you will be understood. A really lazy way of approaching a foreign language, I know, bert eet werkx (ooh, yet another exception to prove the rule - mais ça marche....)I also agree with you about the hype. In fact it would be true to say that I like the course despite the marketing rather than because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gooliegumdrop Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 ''I do believe that confidence is the one really important factor, which is very difficult to achieve from home study methods unless you have a particularly oversized ego that will withstand being knocked for six the first time you try it out. ''Of course you are absolutely right. Confidence is probably the single most important factor in learning a second language (as an adult). A good tutor would instinctively try to instill confidence in his/her students by using good teaching methods. I am forgetting that many self-study courses by their very nature can have an adverse effect on the student. 'Why can't I get to grips with Unit 4 even though the presenter is telling me it is perfectly simple?' On that point if Michel Thomas has managed to convey something in his courses that others have overlooked or failed to do, then I fully retract my criticisms and highly commend him on that ability.Juliewww.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... bizzyliz Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 That is a pretty comprehensive list of learning materials, to which I would add 'La grammaire en clair' by Paul Rogers and Jeremy Long, published by Nelson, ISBN 0174444206. I have used it alongside 'The French Experience', which some people feel does not concentrate enough on grammar. The exercises in 'La grammaire...' are of varying difficulty on each topic, but the humour in them lightens things up. The vocabulary that is brought in differs quite a bit from the usual coursebook content, and tends to appeal to learners who already have a basic grounding in French.Some people shy away from 'La grammaire...' completely, but have found 'Learn French the Fast and Fun Way' a useful beginners' book. It has its failings and is very much geared towards the tourist, but learners have commented that they appreciate the fact that the pages are not dense and the grammar explanations are usually clear and straightforward. Unfortunately it does not give enough practice exercises.I have not used 'Breakthrough French' but have read good reviews of it. I have some students who are approaching the end of 'French Experience 2' and was wondering if 'Breakthrough French 3' would be a good follow-on course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 ''I have not used 'Breakthrough French' but have read good reviews of it. I have some students who are approaching the end of 'French Experience 2' and was wondering if 'Breakthrough French 3' would be a good follow-on course.'' Personally, I wouldn’t have said that Breakthrough 3 is at a particularly higher level than French Experience 2, since the French Experience series are more comprehensive than the Breakthrough series (the 2 books being roughly equivalent in content to the 3). However, I wouldn’t suggest that it were a complete waste of time to follow on from FE2 with B3. Even if nothing new as such is learned, it is still good speaking, listening and revision practice. Likewise, you could go from B3 to FE2 and still probably gain something, even if it were just practice. Unfortunately, there appears to be a gap in the market for higher-advanced level materials (please post if you know otherwise), and so comprehensive grammar resources seem to be the only option. These of course do not offer much in the way of speaking and listening. I note from reading other posts that many people have chosen to do level 2 and 3 Open University courses www.open.ac.uk . I am currently doing the German versions myself, and have to say that these are outstanding. They are of course not a cheap option, and I believe if you are based outside of the UK the fees are higher still, since you lose the government’s contribution towards the cost. It is also possible to obtain materials second-hand (from eBay or also try www.universitybooksearch.co.uk ) but these, of course, are in limited supply. Julie .www.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hi all,I have read your posts and I would like to add that my attitude to learning French is based on the way we learn English (speak before you can read and write as you learn to read).Primarily learning to talk (as children do) before going into the writing and the grammar for this we are using various different courses which all help to improve both vocabulary and pronunciation. These include Linguaphone all talk, and a readers digest version both covering different topics and giving a broader appeal. Secondly we have already got the Hugo French in 3 months and a French intensive language course. Both of these involve reading and writing in French with simple "useful" exercises. As for the Michel Thomas I do have that but as yet have not felt the need to go down that road while the other two versions are still increasing my knowledge and more importantly my conversation skills. I would just like to say that I personally feel I would rather communicate than not, also confidence is something that you have or you don't and while my ego is not particulary oversized. I do not have a problem of using my limited vocabulary or even saying an English word with a French accent. Or even at a push turning into a game of charades anything to communicate.My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of the car. Since then she has said she won't speak french until she has mastered it but as she never practises what she learns or studies we feel she either is already or soon will be "Frogaphobic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... bizzyliz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks Julie for the feedback on B3. Even if it does just provide revision and further practice, it would be very useful for learners in the UK who don't have the opportunity to practise their French everyday.As far as more advanced books go, a few years ago I bought hugo's 'Advanced French Course' by Jacqueline Lecanuet and Ronald Overy, ISBN 0852853777. It is defined as 'bridging the gap between GCSE and A level'. There are apparently four audio cassettes that accompany the book, but I can't honestly remember seeing either the book or the cassettes in shops recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 ''My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of the car. Since then she has said she won't speak french until she has mastered it but as she never practises what she learns or studies we feel she either is already or soon will be "Frogaphobic".''Yes, you are right. She will never 'master' it if she refuses to use it! It seems to me that she needs a confidence booster. Are there no French classes available in her local community? This may help her to break the cycle of refusing to speak French in public. In response to bizzyliz's posting, the Hugo Advanced French mentioned is still available to buy.Hugo Advanced French (+ audio CDs), Dorling Kindersley 2004, ISBN: 1405304855, RRP £25.00 (although is available on Amazon for £17.50).I remember using an earlier version of this course, and if I remember correctly, it was a great reading course backed up with plenty of explanatory notes and audio dialogues. However, there was little in the way of speaking exercises. But this may not be a priority for those already based in France since you may be getting plenty of practice by speaking French on a daily basis anyway.Juliewww.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 [quote]''My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of t...[/quote]There may be but as she won't try to communicate with the French she is only prepared to speak with English and even refuses to go shopping if there is no-one at the "British" till in the local supermarket. Even our kids have more of an understanding and they are aged 5 (6 in 2 weeks), 7 and 8. She is in 50 so too far for us to try and help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Paul, Are you telling me that they have 'British' tills in French supermarkets now? Wow! Unbelievable!When I was living in 24 in the early nineties, I would come across many a Brit who had been living in France for years and managed to get by, even ran successful businesses on a very limited vocabulary of around 50 words (and a good percentage of these would be obscenities!). But I have to say that I never met anyone, no matter how bad their language skills, that point blank refused to even give the lingo a try.Absolutely no offence intended, but exactly why is your mother-in-law living in a foreign country?? How does she get through day-to-day life?Julie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Hegs Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 >As far as more advanced books go, a few years ago I bought hugo's 'Advanced French Course' by >Jacqueline Lecanuet and Ronald OveryI vote for this one as well. I found nothing similar at the same level and it really helped getting past the "O level wall".If you have a fair amount of spare time, I'd also vote for Fluent French Audio as a follow up, http://www.fluentfrench.com/, which is a regular audio magazine with transcript, comprehension and some good speaking exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 3 weeks later... Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Absolutely no offence intended, but exactly why is your mother-in-law living in a foreign country?? How does she get through day-to-day life?Well Julie, she used to go over on holidays and rallies and loved the place and the house she is in is about 100 times better than her one in the UK with beautiful views that make her smile when she sits out on the patio. I was a little hard on her and have been berated by my better half, she did try with the language and was daunted as are most of us initially by the stream of fast fluent French which met her tentative attempts to communicate. The woman in her local shop is about the same age as her and has no English whatsoever and she doesn't want to make a fool of herself. Her husband gets by and she leaves it to him (because she can) and yes the local l'eclerc has 2 tills with union jack flags on them to denote that the operator speaks english.She manages to shop in Depot de ventes, brocantes and markets by giving them what they ask for on their price tags with a quick "merci" and obviously no haggling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Iceni Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Unless you can learn to speak French using a CD and can cope with detailed books in French without any vocab at all (which means you get to the point that the sight of your dictionary is enough to give you a headache) don't touch the OU L192 French course. It is dire. I have got astounding marks and my French is worse now than before I started - never getting below 90% like most folk on the course the universal comments have to be seen to be believed. I tried to complain but was told with marks such as mine I was obviously having no problems so my comments were ignored. I have dropped out (as have so many others who have done other language courses with the OU).I told my tutor I was dropping out a month/6 weeks ago - true to form I have had no contact what so ever in reply (and my main reason was ill health at the time).Having done other remote courses with UK Universities and used to collect qualifications in my chosen field this is the first time a course has beaten me.Off to do the rounds of the local towns to find a course here next week - should have done that in the first place. I also like Michel Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... 5 weeks later... Charlie Farley Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hi : I am currently studying part time (evenings) at a local college (so far I've done 3 years) which uses the BBC French Experience and would agree that for the absolute beginner this course would be very hard work working at home alone - especially trying to understand the french conversations on the CDs as they talk so fast! Working at college under the supervision of a teacher is a lot easier BUT very focused on grammar. However, I was lucky enough to be given a secondhand copy of Stephanie Rybak's Breakthrough French 1 which I managed to study at home and on holiday. I found it much easier to understand and particularly liked the little questionnaires/quizzes at the end of each section - a way of assessing how well one had absorbed the work. I found it so helpful that I bought the same book (updated to include the euro rather that the franc) with the 4 CDs as I wanted to hear the pronunciation. I bought them from Amazon for £27.99. So if anyone wants to study alone at home I would recommend Stephanie Rybak's course. For the first time, whilst on holiday in France this year, I took the plunge and started using what I'd learned. It was so successful that I couldn't resist having a go at every opportunity. jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Teamedup Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 If the Mother in Law was ever going to 'master it' she would have done so in this year, maybe less, because those with the gift don't take long to get to grips with it all. For the rest of us, well doing our best and plodding on is the way we do it at our own rhythm and not talking is no way to do it.I agree about the talking first, I have no idea why english is taught with books in french schools. Maybe it is the same in other countries, I don't know, I just know that languages are just that and not ecrivages. And getting people talking must be better than doing the reading writing bit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... andyh4 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 "The woman in her local shop is about the same age as her and has no English whatsoever and she doesn't want to make a fool of herself. "I know this will not be easy but you have to try to make her change her attitude. Making mistakes is part of the learning process and if the woman in the shop does not speak a word of English I would bet she is more likely to be impressed that your mother does speak a few words of faultering French than to think she is making a fool of herself."Her husband gets by and she leaves it to him (because she can)"We had freinds in exactly the same position as your mother. Then the husband developed a brain tumour. Believe me this is not the environment to suddenly decide you have to learn French - and medical jargon at that. Noone wishes anyone ill fortune but it does pay to be a little prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Please sign in to comment You will be able to leave a comment after signing in Sign In Now Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Will Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 I can't comment on the others, because I am not familiar with those particular programmes, but I feel the review is rather unfair to the Michel Thomas course. I can understand why it is not popular with conventional teachers, because it doesn't bother with (in fact it actually discourages) written work, exercises and revision. However, it works, and that is why it is popular with celebrities and other busy people. It doesn't offer, or claim, fluency - how could it in eight hours? - and, at least as far as the full CD or cassette course is concerned, it doesn't pretend to, as there is very little emphasis on grammar. What it does provide is the confidence to converse, and the ability to be understood as well as useful pointers to help understand the other side of the conversation. This latter is where most such courses fall down badly, in fact the better the French person to whom you are talking thinks you are, the faster thay will talk and the more obscure will be the words used, whhich can be counter-productive. Far from being a bumbling German with two dozy students Thomas' programmes are in fact very cleverly structured. With an instructor who sounds like an ordinary, friendly person passing on his knowledge to two students, one of whom is quick on the uptake, with a reasonable accent, and the other is probably deliberately rather less able, we find ourselves automatically striving to emulate the better of the pair - and we end up with the ability to cope with many everyday situations and the confidence to find the words to cope with others.That's why I like the Michel Thomas course. I did try an earlier version of the BBC one some years ago and did not warm to it for the same reasons mentioned in the review, despite having a good grounding in French vocabulary and grammar at school (from a teacher who had written another recognised French text book). Although Michel Thomas is over twice the price, to me it is infinitely better value as I actually got something out of MT - in fact several times more than I got from any other learning materials.The Thomas course does have one serious disadvantage compared with more conventional methods and that is that it appears to offer very limited scope for further learning beyond conversational (and not particularly grammatical) abilities. For written French, dealing with different tenses of verbs, etc then there seems to be no alternative to traditional learning. Thomas offers something up to a particular point which, though 'miracle' is an exaggeration, is likely to provide a high degree of success with those who may lack the motivation, time or concentration to learn from text books or more conventional audio methods.If value and/or low cost is the important consideration though, I'd go for conversation classes with a native French speaker any time. Many organisations run these in France, as well as via adult education classes in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooliegumdrop Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Yes, I knew I would be courting controversy with my review of the Michel Thomas course. And fair enough, maybe my comments are a little on the harsh side; like I said, if the technique works for you, then great! Especially if it instills enough confidence in the learner to have a crack at using the language for real. It has to be remembered however, that no single language programme on its own is going to achieve miraculous results. I feel the marketing and hype associated with this course may lead the beginning learner to believe otherwise. However, a lot (if not most) of the people I know who have ever wanted to learn a language have tried Michel Thomas at some time or another. Indeed many have found aspects of the course very helpful, but non have advanced much beyond a basic level on the basis of this course alone. At the same time, there are others who found the content difficult to connect with, and therefore not appropriate for their needs. But of course, this could be said of any method, since what works for one learner may not work for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 "...many have found aspects of the course very helpful, but non have advanced much beyond a basic level on the basis of this course alone." I'd thoroughly agree with that. In fact I don't see how the Michel Thomas methods can teach other than the rudimentary conversational aspects. But then conversational French is much more than many native English speakers have, even a lot of those who live here. That may sound a bit harsh, patronising even, but it's true. I don't count myself as being a good French speaker, particularly where the intricacies of grammar are concerned, but feel that I can cope with most normal situations.I do believe that confidence is the one really important factor, which is very difficult to achieve from home study methods unless you have a particularly oversized ego that will withstand being knocked for six the first time you try it out. Thomas is the only one that I have found that seems to recognise this, as borne out by his advice in the early stages of the course that a very large percentage of words are the same in both English and French, so if you don't know the word, just say the English word in the French way. It may be pretty useless some of the time, but there's nothing to lose, and a pretty good chance that you will be understood. A really lazy way of approaching a foreign language, I know, bert eet werkx (ooh, yet another exception to prove the rule - mais ça marche....)I also agree with you about the hype. In fact it would be true to say that I like the course despite the marketing rather than because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooliegumdrop Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 ''I do believe that confidence is the one really important factor, which is very difficult to achieve from home study methods unless you have a particularly oversized ego that will withstand being knocked for six the first time you try it out. ''Of course you are absolutely right. Confidence is probably the single most important factor in learning a second language (as an adult). A good tutor would instinctively try to instill confidence in his/her students by using good teaching methods. I am forgetting that many self-study courses by their very nature can have an adverse effect on the student. 'Why can't I get to grips with Unit 4 even though the presenter is telling me it is perfectly simple?' On that point if Michel Thomas has managed to convey something in his courses that others have overlooked or failed to do, then I fully retract my criticisms and highly commend him on that ability.Juliewww.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyliz Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 That is a pretty comprehensive list of learning materials, to which I would add 'La grammaire en clair' by Paul Rogers and Jeremy Long, published by Nelson, ISBN 0174444206. I have used it alongside 'The French Experience', which some people feel does not concentrate enough on grammar. The exercises in 'La grammaire...' are of varying difficulty on each topic, but the humour in them lightens things up. The vocabulary that is brought in differs quite a bit from the usual coursebook content, and tends to appeal to learners who already have a basic grounding in French.Some people shy away from 'La grammaire...' completely, but have found 'Learn French the Fast and Fun Way' a useful beginners' book. It has its failings and is very much geared towards the tourist, but learners have commented that they appreciate the fact that the pages are not dense and the grammar explanations are usually clear and straightforward. Unfortunately it does not give enough practice exercises.I have not used 'Breakthrough French' but have read good reviews of it. I have some students who are approaching the end of 'French Experience 2' and was wondering if 'Breakthrough French 3' would be a good follow-on course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 ''I have not used 'Breakthrough French' but have read good reviews of it. I have some students who are approaching the end of 'French Experience 2' and was wondering if 'Breakthrough French 3' would be a good follow-on course.'' Personally, I wouldn’t have said that Breakthrough 3 is at a particularly higher level than French Experience 2, since the French Experience series are more comprehensive than the Breakthrough series (the 2 books being roughly equivalent in content to the 3). However, I wouldn’t suggest that it were a complete waste of time to follow on from FE2 with B3. Even if nothing new as such is learned, it is still good speaking, listening and revision practice. Likewise, you could go from B3 to FE2 and still probably gain something, even if it were just practice. Unfortunately, there appears to be a gap in the market for higher-advanced level materials (please post if you know otherwise), and so comprehensive grammar resources seem to be the only option. These of course do not offer much in the way of speaking and listening. I note from reading other posts that many people have chosen to do level 2 and 3 Open University courses www.open.ac.uk . I am currently doing the German versions myself, and have to say that these are outstanding. They are of course not a cheap option, and I believe if you are based outside of the UK the fees are higher still, since you lose the government’s contribution towards the cost. It is also possible to obtain materials second-hand (from eBay or also try www.universitybooksearch.co.uk ) but these, of course, are in limited supply. Julie .www.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Hi all,I have read your posts and I would like to add that my attitude to learning French is based on the way we learn English (speak before you can read and write as you learn to read).Primarily learning to talk (as children do) before going into the writing and the grammar for this we are using various different courses which all help to improve both vocabulary and pronunciation. These include Linguaphone all talk, and a readers digest version both covering different topics and giving a broader appeal. Secondly we have already got the Hugo French in 3 months and a French intensive language course. Both of these involve reading and writing in French with simple "useful" exercises. As for the Michel Thomas I do have that but as yet have not felt the need to go down that road while the other two versions are still increasing my knowledge and more importantly my conversation skills. I would just like to say that I personally feel I would rather communicate than not, also confidence is something that you have or you don't and while my ego is not particulary oversized. I do not have a problem of using my limited vocabulary or even saying an English word with a French accent. Or even at a push turning into a game of charades anything to communicate.My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of the car. Since then she has said she won't speak french until she has mastered it but as she never practises what she learns or studies we feel she either is already or soon will be "Frogaphobic". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzyliz Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Thanks Julie for the feedback on B3. Even if it does just provide revision and further practice, it would be very useful for learners in the UK who don't have the opportunity to practise their French everyday.As far as more advanced books go, a few years ago I bought hugo's 'Advanced French Course' by Jacqueline Lecanuet and Ronald Overy, ISBN 0852853777. It is defined as 'bridging the gap between GCSE and A level'. There are apparently four audio cassettes that accompany the book, but I can't honestly remember seeing either the book or the cassettes in shops recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 ''My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of the car. Since then she has said she won't speak french until she has mastered it but as she never practises what she learns or studies we feel she either is already or soon will be "Frogaphobic".''Yes, you are right. She will never 'master' it if she refuses to use it! It seems to me that she needs a confidence booster. Are there no French classes available in her local community? This may help her to break the cycle of refusing to speak French in public. In response to bizzyliz's posting, the Hugo Advanced French mentioned is still available to buy.Hugo Advanced French (+ audio CDs), Dorling Kindersley 2004, ISBN: 1405304855, RRP £25.00 (although is available on Amazon for £17.50).I remember using an earlier version of this course, and if I remember correctly, it was a great reading course backed up with plenty of explanatory notes and audio dialogues. However, there was little in the way of speaking exercises. But this may not be a priority for those already based in France since you may be getting plenty of practice by speaking French on a daily basis anyway.Juliewww.francoservices.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 [quote]''My mother-in-law has been resident in France for a little over a year and when we visited last year she went to the local village shop with my wife for some bread and then wouldn't even get out of t...[/quote]There may be but as she won't try to communicate with the French she is only prepared to speak with English and even refuses to go shopping if there is no-one at the "British" till in the local supermarket. Even our kids have more of an understanding and they are aged 5 (6 in 2 weeks), 7 and 8. She is in 50 so too far for us to try and help out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooliegumdrop Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Paul, Are you telling me that they have 'British' tills in French supermarkets now? Wow! Unbelievable!When I was living in 24 in the early nineties, I would come across many a Brit who had been living in France for years and managed to get by, even ran successful businesses on a very limited vocabulary of around 50 words (and a good percentage of these would be obscenities!). But I have to say that I never met anyone, no matter how bad their language skills, that point blank refused to even give the lingo a try.Absolutely no offence intended, but exactly why is your mother-in-law living in a foreign country?? How does she get through day-to-day life?Julie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hegs Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 >As far as more advanced books go, a few years ago I bought hugo's 'Advanced French Course' by >Jacqueline Lecanuet and Ronald OveryI vote for this one as well. I found nothing similar at the same level and it really helped getting past the "O level wall".If you have a fair amount of spare time, I'd also vote for Fluent French Audio as a follow up, http://www.fluentfrench.com/, which is a regular audio magazine with transcript, comprehension and some good speaking exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P> Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Absolutely no offence intended, but exactly why is your mother-in-law living in a foreign country?? How does she get through day-to-day life?Well Julie, she used to go over on holidays and rallies and loved the place and the house she is in is about 100 times better than her one in the UK with beautiful views that make her smile when she sits out on the patio. I was a little hard on her and have been berated by my better half, she did try with the language and was daunted as are most of us initially by the stream of fast fluent French which met her tentative attempts to communicate. The woman in her local shop is about the same age as her and has no English whatsoever and she doesn't want to make a fool of herself. Her husband gets by and she leaves it to him (because she can) and yes the local l'eclerc has 2 tills with union jack flags on them to denote that the operator speaks english.She manages to shop in Depot de ventes, brocantes and markets by giving them what they ask for on their price tags with a quick "merci" and obviously no haggling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Unless you can learn to speak French using a CD and can cope with detailed books in French without any vocab at all (which means you get to the point that the sight of your dictionary is enough to give you a headache) don't touch the OU L192 French course. It is dire. I have got astounding marks and my French is worse now than before I started - never getting below 90% like most folk on the course the universal comments have to be seen to be believed. I tried to complain but was told with marks such as mine I was obviously having no problems so my comments were ignored. I have dropped out (as have so many others who have done other language courses with the OU).I told my tutor I was dropping out a month/6 weeks ago - true to form I have had no contact what so ever in reply (and my main reason was ill health at the time).Having done other remote courses with UK Universities and used to collect qualifications in my chosen field this is the first time a course has beaten me.Off to do the rounds of the local towns to find a course here next week - should have done that in the first place. I also like Michel Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Farley Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Hi : I am currently studying part time (evenings) at a local college (so far I've done 3 years) which uses the BBC French Experience and would agree that for the absolute beginner this course would be very hard work working at home alone - especially trying to understand the french conversations on the CDs as they talk so fast! Working at college under the supervision of a teacher is a lot easier BUT very focused on grammar. However, I was lucky enough to be given a secondhand copy of Stephanie Rybak's Breakthrough French 1 which I managed to study at home and on holiday. I found it much easier to understand and particularly liked the little questionnaires/quizzes at the end of each section - a way of assessing how well one had absorbed the work. I found it so helpful that I bought the same book (updated to include the euro rather that the franc) with the 4 CDs as I wanted to hear the pronunciation. I bought them from Amazon for £27.99. So if anyone wants to study alone at home I would recommend Stephanie Rybak's course. For the first time, whilst on holiday in France this year, I took the plunge and started using what I'd learned. It was so successful that I couldn't resist having a go at every opportunity. jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 If the Mother in Law was ever going to 'master it' she would have done so in this year, maybe less, because those with the gift don't take long to get to grips with it all. For the rest of us, well doing our best and plodding on is the way we do it at our own rhythm and not talking is no way to do it.I agree about the talking first, I have no idea why english is taught with books in french schools. Maybe it is the same in other countries, I don't know, I just know that languages are just that and not ecrivages. And getting people talking must be better than doing the reading writing bit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 "The woman in her local shop is about the same age as her and has no English whatsoever and she doesn't want to make a fool of herself. "I know this will not be easy but you have to try to make her change her attitude. Making mistakes is part of the learning process and if the woman in the shop does not speak a word of English I would bet she is more likely to be impressed that your mother does speak a few words of faultering French than to think she is making a fool of herself."Her husband gets by and she leaves it to him (because she can)"We had freinds in exactly the same position as your mother. Then the husband developed a brain tumour. Believe me this is not the environment to suddenly decide you have to learn French - and medical jargon at that. Noone wishes anyone ill fortune but it does pay to be a little prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts