Born_to_fish_68<P><IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Born_to_fish_68 (AKA Paul)<P><P>North Yorks House 16 Lakes 24<BR><P>

Not bad pink fluff (or is it newboy on TF) only 3 hours to come back with that and lo and behold it goes out of context what a surprise.  That was in response to leaving a wounded animal or bird in pain not to do with anything else.  It was also before we posted that we had found out that Heron's are protected across Europe and an that only certain people can kill a restricted number of Cormorants per year.  Whether fishery owners are included within these "certain people" as they are in the UK we still have to find out.  Rest assured if they are I'll kill them in the most humane way possible.  No doubt on your 3 hour reply you may have managed to read some of the other posts you will see that the first port of call is the mayor IF we ever become infested but hey go ahead mis-quote me.

A couple more threads for you to check out regarding Ragondin /  Coypu http://totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6379 http://totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6630    

[quote]Debra, I've quickly looked at your links and can't see anything about Ragondins attacking dogs or people. As for your husband's remark about the chickens, I am not concerned as I do not have any, but...[/quote] Hang on Christine before you get carried away (and you need to be), was it not you that wished alligators and crocodiles on our 3 small children.  Oh yes it was!!!!  We have looked at most of your posts and in my opinion are almost totally irelevant to the topic in hand, you don't answer questions and nothing has been mentioned about protecting your dogs for that matter either.  We are quite prepared to share them with nature but not prepared to give them away as free samples.  If we buy fish then surely we have a right to protect them and care for them much the same as any pet.  Or maybe I'm wrong NOT!!!!!!!!

[quote]I haven't been on the other forum to have a look but I shall do so. Your last post "born to fish" seems to imply that you are backing out from what you said at the beginning. I just hope that the "m...[/quote] I'm not backing out of anything just reiterating what I started the thread off with about owning/buying air rifles in France.  Too late they are ours......... No I didn't want praise for shooting down herons etc I asked for advice about air rifles.  I also said we don't have any pests on the land and that when/if we do then we will deal with them legally. Just one thing I must say is that herons and fish don't go together you find a flock of herons arrive, desimate the fish and then move on to new fish stocks there is no such thing as compatability between to the two. About Coypu/Ragondin attacking well there were umpteen posts about this on various forums where they have attacked dogs chased people and we are still looking for the posts but the search facility is playing up at the moment.  As soon as we find it you'll be the first to see it.   ps still no reply for my wife about sending them to your place to play with the dogs.  Or for that matter whether you would let the foxes eat your chickens.  

[quote]Well reading the "other" forum it seems obvious that this guy is going to shoot the birds even if it is not legal nasty nasty nasty[/quote] I never said that and yet again I have to agree with my wife in that we have said on both forums now that we will not be doing anything illegal and as my wife has posted on both forums stating that we haven't got a problem with any "pests" but if we do get one our 1st port of call will be the marie who we are buying the lakes from.  I don't see how any derogatory comments can be aimed at us.... but then it takes all sorts and these forums seem to bring out the worst sorts (not aimed at the helpful and informative posts and pms we received)

[quote]hi , this looks like a rather heavy thread for my first post , human and dog attacking coypu .......ive heard it all now !! lol when was the last time you heard of any non meat eating creature go...[/quote] haveing said all that , coypu are a pest they do a lot of damage  and do need to be controlled  i beleave the french blow them up in the far south . born to fish , did you say you was a fishery manager ? do they teach you to kill herons now ?  do they teach you to upset the  natural balance ? what about the birds of prey that hunt fish ? what about crested grebes they hunt fry ? what about coots  they eat fish spawn ? all of these freshwater birds are part of the natural balance of any lake ,  take them away and you get problems . as for cormorants  well they are a big pest and are not part of the natural balace !!!!!!!   Right let me get this straight it is ok according to you to blow up Coypu, shoot Cormorants "but protect Herons" explain the difference a rule for one should be a rule for another.  Just so you know Herons are like Cormorants in that they attack fish which are far too large for them to carry away and that results in badly damaged fish with open wounds that can get infected kill the fish cause polution in the lake and lead to all the fish dying.  Bearing all this in mind we are still not sure that the lakes are going to be a comercial venue so there will be no income from it but there will be considerable outgoings such as buying the fish transporting the fish feeding the fish maintaining the water quality not to mention that nearly 50% of the time spent at the lake will be to manage the terrain As for natural balance the lakes will be managed by me not by nature so perch and carp will eat the spawn and the small fry.  If that starts to fail then you put in bigger predators to remove the problem like Zander or Pike or even Catfish.  I'd be more than happy with a lake stocked full of females as they stop spawning and spend all their energy packing on weight and that removes the spawn and the fry.

[quote]I think your children are in far more danger of drowning in your lake than being mauled by a coypu!!Most of us have moved to rural France because we enjoy the countryside, the wildlife and the peace (...[/quote] Here we go again..... As I said we teach our kids to overcome obstacles and yes believe it or not swimming is one of them not to mention that they have spent considerable time round lakes both with fishing and camping and have never as yet come back with even a damp wellie between the three of them. As for moving to rural France yes we too enjoy the wildlife and the peace and quiet, however we will be responsible for the fish in our lakes and yes, I think that we will become respected members of our community as not only will we be taking care of our lakes and the terrain we own but mixing freely and embracing the French way of life. As for the hunting....  There are so many hunts around rural France I would have thought that someone who detests it would move to a city or even back to the UK where it seems to have been banned. As for the competition isn't this back to the question of letting the foxes eat your pet chickens?

[quote]If you feel so responsible for your children. Why do you take them into such dangerous climes? Just wondering...[/quote] Almost missed this post as I was reitterating the original thread but as for taking the kids to dangerous areas what hogwash is that?  Kids can get run over by cars and buses but that doesn't make us keep them in the house for fear of it, it doesn't stop us teaching them the highway code so they know how to cross the road.  Think of how many dangerous hazards we face in everyday life but that doesn't force us to become hermits or recluses does it?  Along with having kids comes the responsibility to teach them about the rules of society and the outlook to enjoy life rather than fear it, but, that being said if you can remove anything that will or may cause injury then you look for the answer and do it.  That is what the thread was about, but you look after your dogs and I'll look after my kids. 

[quote]We are shortly to complete on our lakes in the Dordogne and I would like to have an air rifle powerful enough to take out a heron or a cormorant (not that I've seen any yet). I was wondering if they ...[/quote] Thanks for all the side issues the original thread is above and is about the rules governing owning air rifles not the law or the moral issues, the reason that H, C & C were mentioned was to relate the kind of power needed, NOT something that I would be doing all of the time or any of it.

[quote]hi , this looks like a rather heavy thread for my first post , human and dog attacking coypu .......ive heard it all now !! lol when was the last time you heard of any non meat eating creature go...[/quote] Well let me start by saying welcome. Now that is out of the way do a search on this forum and most other french forum sites and you'll read about the exploits of some of "lovely creatures" that have attacked dogs (and left the dogs requiring stitches), chase people (one lady said she used to see it taking over her patio before she went out and after she came in) and burrow into the ground draining the lake and killing fish in the process.  As I said I am a family man and within the responsibilities of that are looking after my kids and if Coypu are quite willing to attack dogs (maybe because the dogs are inquisitive) then they are just as likely to attack my 3 small kids who are probably more inquisitive than any dog and the have to go.  I'll also add that Coypu are classed as Vermin and can be shot or trapped at will.  As for cormorants they may be a nuisance but they are a protected one so they are safe (unless permission follows lol)

Well after searching on the internet for about 3 hours solid we have found that Herons and Cormorants are protected species across Europe.  The only upside is that English fishery owners get permission (as in a special licence to shoot them) to rid themselves of these piscivorous birds and so we may stand a chance.  Otherwise we may have to resort to the spraying technique as mentioned by Dick (don't fancy walking round in waterproofs in the middle of summer lol) either that or employ the kids with their high powered water blasters.

[quote]Excuse me. How close are you going to be to do a successful "head shot". If you are going to shoot a heron make sure you have a knowledge of their anatomy. I have shot a lot of different targets and ...[/quote] Hi Zeb, well let me say that I'll be as close as I need for a head shot for any bird/animal that I need to shoot.  This is because unlike what some posters think I don't want to cause unnecessary suffering to any animal/bird.  As for your other post about getting a shotgun aren't these for people that can't shoot?  Well accurately at least..... Since you didn't answer the wife's post does that mean you are a professional and don't want to endanger your job? Lastly I'd like to say that as a fishery manager this is all part of my profession and the wellbeing of my fish comes first and foremost.

[quote]Why don't you just leave them alone! One of our pleasures is to see herons flying and coming on the water near us. I shall try to find out if these two birds are protected and if they are I shall ce...[/quote] I take it that they aren't swooping onto your lake eating your fish and taking away a possible income to provide for your kids then eh?

Before I get anymore challenges over an air rifle I'd just like to say that I am an extremely competent shot and will not shoot the body but only go for head shots to make sure I get the kill.   I will only be shooting after I have spoken to the Federation and only if it is legal.

Cheers Al