Now heres a big question!! for some one who has a spare life

[Danny]

Ok, I might have been wrong. Perhaps I should have said "Je les ai trouvé très utile" maybe someone who really knows will come along shortly!

Danny

[Tourangelle]

Je les ai trouvés très utiles, because your preceeding direct object is the books, I think. I'm sure a French person will come along and correct me if I don't have it right.

There are only two tenses in English, the present and the past.  We do not have a future tense.  We can talk about the future in various ways, will for example or going to but there is no tense. Will is what is called a modal rather than a tense, we use many modals in English, they are can, could will would may might should shall and so on.  They modify the verb that follows them but cannot be conjugated, (for example, she cans is obviously wrong). 

It would be impossible to find an exact equivalent for the tenses in French.  Sometimes when we use a present perfect for example, your French person is going to be using a present. 

Example:

I have been learning French for ten years. You translate word for word and end up with something like j'ai été en train d'apprendre le français pour dix ans.  Passé composé, you say to yourself.  You get puzzled looks when you say it.  Eh non, ça ne se dit pas comme ça.  Meanwhile your average French person is tearing their hair out wondering how it can be so complicated to say something as simple as, j'apprends le français depuis dix ans.  [:(]

[Clair]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

I have found them very useful. or "Je leur'ai trouvé très utile".... Ok that's me putting my head above the parapet waiting for Clair to correct me. It takes a bit of courage to write here in French.

I enjoy reading your questions because I get see how you are progressing and also I learn things too

Danny

[/quote]

Danny, Pads, all French learners

I agree you are all very brave to post in French and I apologise if any of my posts have made you feel otherwise. I find it amazing that you are all so willing to learn "the hard way" [:D]

Generally, I'm never sure if the poster wants "the" solution or simply an input from other learners... I'll sit on my hands in future [:)]

[Pads]

Nooooo Clair I treasure your help and advise, it has been very helpful, I always sit here when i have asked a question hoping your out there because I know I can rely on your knowledge. I worry Im being a nuisance some times , but I figure you wouldnt answer if you thought that, Im sure nobody meant any thing by the post.

So please dont disappear theres a new generation of french speakers who need you out there [:D] In fact I wish I could transport you here to be my neighbour[:D]

    

[Chancer]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

pads,

I'm not being funny but may I suggest that you but a book of verb tables! then you will have all the common verbs and their conjugations

A good one in English - teach yourself 'French Verbs'

and in French - Bescherelle 'La Conjugaison'

you will find each verb and all its conjugations and translations on each page.

I have found them very useful. or "Je leur'ai trouvé très utile".... Ok that's me putting my head above the parapet waiting for Clair to correct me. It takes a bit of courage to write here in French.

I enjoy reading your questions because I get see how you are progressing and also I learn things too

Danny

[/quote]

When I got my book of verb tables I asked exactly the same question as pads so that I could compare them to English and relate better to them.

I can relate to her enthusiasm and search for knowledge, I too enjoy reading and learning from the replies to her postings which has also improved my diminishing English.

[Clair]

Pads, I don't think you're a nuisance and I don't think Danny meant anything by the post either [:)] (I mean I'm sure he didn't mean it to sound like that !) [:)]

The best explanations are frequently give by other learners, as they approach the problem in the same way you do, whereas a fluent speaker may give a grammatical explanation which would make things more confusing.

[Patf]

Well I think people are having a hard time of it nowadays learning french. I did A level french ages ago and only did 5 tenses:  present, future, past perfect, past imperfect and past pluperfect. No subjunctive. But at the same time we were learning latin grammar and english grammar, so it all hung together. More recently I tried to teach english grammar and conversation to a few russians, and the book I used opened up huge new horizons of tenses, moods etc. Pads - take it slowly and don't look too far ahead.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Patf"]Well I think people are having a hard time of it nowadays learning french. I did A level french ages ago and only did 5 tenses:  present, future, past perfect, past imperfect and past pluperfect. No subjunctive. But at the same time we were learning latin grammar and english grammar, so it all hung together. More recently I tried to teach english grammar and conversation to a few russians, and the book I used opened up huge new horizons of tenses, moods etc. Pads - take it slowly and don't look too far ahead.[/quote]

Vous avez raison, bien sur.

Et, à mon avis, c’est peut-être triste, car, pour les plus part

nous habitons en France ou nous avons une maison là, et souvant nous

avons le puer de se humilier si nous écririons quel que chose en français.

C’était regrettable qu' il y avait certaines gens sur ce forum qui,

il me semblait, gagnaient beaucoup de satisfaction à dire « Vous avez fait les

fautes. Vous êtes idiot » si quel qu’un a eu le courage d’écrire en

français, mais, pour le plus part, ils sont parti. D’être clair, je dois dire que

les gens français parmi-nous sont toujours, et sans exception, gentils. Les andouilles

étaient britanniques.

Mais, est-ce que vous avez vu les fautes d’écriture anglaise

qu’on peut trouver parmi ces fils ? Normalement,  personne ne dit rien à-propos ceux.

Et moi, je voudrais bien apprendre français.

Donc, peut-être c’est le moment de créer une section dans ce

forum où il est interdit d’écrire en anglaise…que pensez-vous, tout le monde ?

Let's see - 170 words or so and based on my normal performance...50 faults? And at least two of the paragraphs will make no sense at all. But then, I don't get much opportunity to write in French in situations where I can be allowed to make mistakes without people looking utterly baffled or having 25 snotty kids jeering at me and pointing out my inadequacies (I really, really hate CM2 this year).

So what would people say to a section on the forum that was kept exclusively for posting in French? With nice, gentle, corrections for errors and a little mutual support.

 

[Clair]

[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]So what would people say to a section on the forum that was kept exclusively for posting in French? With nice, gentle, corrections for errors and a little mutual support.[/quote]

There is a thread in French here

Qui veut "chatter" en français ? et tout le monde est le bienvenu [:)]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Clair"][quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]So what would people say to a section on the forum that was kept exclusively for posting in French? With nice, gentle, corrections for errors and a little mutual support.[/quote]

There is a thread in French here

Qui veut "chatter" en français ? et tout le monde est le bienvenu [:)]

[/quote]

And deeply excellent it is too...but I was thinking more in terms of a section where a number of threads could be developed rather than just one so that we could play around with different subjects.

Just an idea.

Actually, forget it. It was a stupid suggestion. Forums can get unwieldy very quickly if people just keep adding sections to them.

[Danny]

[quote user="Clair"]

Danny, Pads, all French learners

I agree you are all very brave to post in French and I apologise if any of my posts have made you feel otherwise. I find it amazing that you are all so willing to learn "the hard way" [:D]

Generally, I'm never sure if the poster wants "the" solution or simply an input from other learners... I'll sit on my hands in future [:)]

[/quote]

No Clair. It is you and others like frenchie who are very brave. We are just starting to be brave! Don't sit on your hands, please. I certainly appreciate your help every time you post and I definitely want "the" solution! But, I understand your reticence to wade in and tell everyone how it is. It is also encouraging when other learners post too.

Il me semble que tu es très sensible avec nos besoins.

Anyway, I am sure I speak for pads as well when I say that I appreciate and learn a lot from your posts.

Danny

[mint]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

Anyway, I am sure I speak for pads as well when I say that I appreciate and learn a lot from your posts.

Danny

[/quote]

I second that, Danny.  And not just with the French language, with all sorts of issues to do with living in France, from recipes for making brioche to the word for needle threader and much else besides.

Clair, vous êtes trop aimable.  Vous m'aidez beaucoup toujours. 

[Jo]

Have just realised that I probably don't have enough years left to learn French properly[:D] but am determined to try to get more fluent, if only for the fact that the reaction of people is so much more positive if you start off in French.[:$] Please Clair keep up with your corrections!!!!

[allanb]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

The subjunctive is a minefield but best described as something which might not necessarily ever happen (something you wish for, or which is imaginary - as in "if I were a rich man" "if wishes were horses" etc..)[/quote]

I agree with cooperlola's advice, but that particular example ("if") happens to be one in which the subjunctive is not used in French (S'il fait beau demain...  Si j'étais riche...)  So that's one thing less to think about.

I have a couple of other suggestions:

(1) Don't spend time worrying about those 555 verbs, or whatever the number is.  Concentrate on a small number of common verbs that will be useful every day.  Avoir and être are essential because with them you can make past forms of any other verb.  Similarly with aller you can make a future form, just as in English: je vais parler français, "I am going to speak French".  Different people will have different ideas about what the others should be: to start with, I would maybe pick pouvoir, savoir, devoir, venir. ***

(2)  Practice the use of on (="one").  It's a word that sounds a bit pretentious in English ("my dear, one doesn't know what to say") but in French it's absolutely normal and very useful, because it lets you get by with only one form of the verb instead of six:

On ne sait pas is good French for "we don't know", "they don't know", "it isn't known", "nobody knows", etc.

On fait du bruit  can mean "we're making a noise", "they're making a noise", "these people are noisy", "there's a lot of noise", etc.

On va au cinéma?  (with a bit of a lift at the end, to show that it's a question) can mean "shall we go to the cinema?"  "are we going to the cinema?"  "is everybody going to the cinema?"  "how about going to the cinema?" etc.

Good luck!

*** edited to add vouloir.

[Tourangelle]

kind of the Berlitz approach, I do agree it important to stick to the essentials.  I know those verb tables, they are far too scary.  Another essential verb as pp suggested is faire.

[Frenchie]

Bonjour  à toutes/tous

The reason why I rarely post on that sort of thread is because I wouldn't like to be the one who  " shows how it is " ...

And I second Clair, you are all very brave and believe me, French people appreciate it soooo much when you make the effort to speak  French, even if you make mistakes.

I make mistakes in English and I was very [:$] of it . My partner, who is English with poor French ( sorry darling ... [:)] ) helped me realize I shouldn't be ashamed.

And of course youare all welcome on the " qui veut chatter en français" thread? it is friendly!