connolls Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hi,I don't know if it's allowable to post a reply to this but here I go. As we will be returning to France in a couple of months and our Civil Partnership will not cover us in regard to ensuring my partner gets the house should anything happen to me. (the house is in my name only) I wanted to ask if anyone knows of a good english speaking solicitor around the Bellac area so that we can get a will completed that will cover us. (we are 87290) Hope it's ok to post this and look forward to any replies.Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I presume that you are talking about a French house. If it is an English one please disregard what followsIn France the official who deals with property and wills is a notaire, and there are many who speak EnglishIn any case there are fixed rules about inheritance that you must follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 [quote user="connolls"]Hi,I don't know if it's allowable to post a reply to this but here I go. As we will be returning to France in a couple of months and our Civil Partnership will not cover us in regard to ensuring my partner gets the house should anything happen to me. (the house is in my name only) I wanted to ask if anyone knows of a good english speaking solicitor around the Bellac area so that we can get a will completed that will cover us. (we are 87290) Hope it's ok to post this and look forward to any replies.Best wishes.[/quote]Hi, There is a campaign in progress to have civil partnerships from other EU countries recognised as french PACs which has a good chance of succeeding. In the meantime if you are able under french law to Will the property to your partner he/she will face an inheritance tax bill of 60% of the value of the house. While waiting for the law to change, you could take out a term life insurance on your life ,with him/her as beneficiary, for 60% of the house value to cover this . If you are not too old such insurance is quite inexpensive. I suggest you discuss this with your notaire when you find one--make sure he/she is ENGLISH FLUENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmelle Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 see below : You will find soon answers .http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/notaires.nsf/V_TC_PUB/ENGLISH-HOMEPAGE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolls Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thank you for the replies, I knew there were some in-roads being made in getting the civil partnerships recognised in france the same as the PACS are over here but i hadn't thought of the life policy to cover the 60% inheritence tax bill that my partner would face, it's a really good idea and i will look into it when we return in april.Once again the forum has been a really good source of information !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi, If you intend to become permanently resident in France, you should consider the PACS. Your partner will have no inheritance tax liability then. It is not sufficient for the notaire to be fluent in English - I would strongly recommend that you check that he/she is also knowledgeable about English law. I have seen so many notaires who fail to take into account the interraction between English and French laws when dealing with English clients...All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolls Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks for the information annie about the notaires experience of english and french law I will try and get one that has experience of both, and of course we can't enter into a PACS as we are already legally "married" under a Civil Partnership and would be committing bigomy.take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 Hi again,I just wish to clarify that it is possible to enter into a PACS even if you are already under a Civil Partnership - I know people who have done it. Take good legal advice.Best wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolls Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Hi annie, are you sure about that as I've been on the "getting married in france" part of the forum and have been told that you can only enter into a PACS in france if you are single, and quite clearly we are not, if you have time look at the reply that "vinny" sent to me under "civil partnerships". I would be very interested if this wasn't the case as it would perhaps mean as you said that we could perhaps consider a PACS as well to relieve the heavy inheritance tax for us.Thanks again for your replies. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 [quote user="annie"]Hi again,I just wish to clarify that it is possible to enter into a PACS even if you are already under a Civil Partnership - I know people who have done it. Take good legal advice.Best wishes.[/quote]I would be interested in having more details as this contradicts everything I have read about this matter. My understanding, as Mel's, is that if there has been a civil partnership in the UK, there cannot be a subsequent PACS in France.EDIT:http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/09/inheritance-tax.htmlhttp://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2008/08/french-system-f.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 the only way I know that you cam perform a civil partnership and a pacs together is if one of the partners is French, in that case the British partner does not have to supply a certificat de coutume and you can perform a pacs at the Frecnh embassy in london. If both of you are British and you have already done a civil partnership then you are stuck, the French demand that you supply them with a ceritifcat de coutume to prove that you are single (which you are not ) and unlik the French/British couple you also have to say that you reside in France to do the PACS. You should also be aware that if you become domiciled in France (ie you really have move there lock stock and barrel then even your life insurance will be part of the 60% IHT - IHT in France is on everythinh you own in the world not only your French property if you become domiciled there - the British!! life insurance is a good way only only if you don't become domiciled there and keep all other assets (apart from your French house of course) out of France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 [quote user="vinny"]the only way I know that you cam perform a civil partnership and a pacs together is if one of the partners is French, in that case the British partner does not have to supply a certificat de coutume and you can perform a pacs at the Frecnh embassy in london. If both of you are British and you have already done a civil partnership then you are stuck, the French demand that you supply them with a ceritifcat de coutume to prove that you are single (which you are not ) and unlik the French/British couple you also have to say that you reside in France to do the PACS. You should also be aware that if you become domiciled in France (ie you really have move there lock stock and barrel then even your life insurance will be part of the 60% IHT - IHT in France is on everythinh you own in the world not only your French property if you become domiciled there - the British!! life insurance is a good way only only if you don't become domiciled there and keep all other assets (apart from your French house of course) out of France.[/quote]Hi, When you say "even life insurance will be part of the 60% IHT" you must be referring to UK based life assurance, which cannot be made out to a beneficiary, and falls into the succession. A french life assurance can be assigned to named beneficiaries who all can receive up to 152000€ tax free and any excess at 20%, regardless of degree of relationship with the deceased, or, indeed no relationship at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Yes, a British life insurance which I guess won't have any tax signifcance to a French tax authority if you leave it your CP partner who in French terms is a mere stanger apart from when you actually want to perform the French equivalent of it. If you're not domiciled there then the British version of life insurance would be better as all of it would be tax free in the U.K and the French tax authorities would have no claim over non French assets. If you're domiciled in France and you have a lot of valuable assets there then I really don't know what the best solution would be to avoid a huge IHT for CP partners, with the increasing value of the euro and the huge increase in some house prices in some areas some people may find that their tax bill could be very large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsnips Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Hi, Going back to the OP, when I advised a term life assurance I should have specified that this MUST be a french insurance, as with a french insurance you can specify the beneficiary(the partner) who gets the proceeds tax free up to 152000€. In the UK you cannot simply name a single beneficiary, and without making complicated and unsure trust provisions, the proceeds form part of the deceased's estate and if either he/she ,or the beneficiary are french resident, will be subject to french IHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connolls Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 The plot thickens..................and seems to be soooooooooo complicated, maybe at some point we should sell the french house before we become to decrepit and move back to the U.K. (some years away I might add) I hope it won't come to this as we haven't even moved there full time yet !! Maybe I should just stop looking into things too much and chill out ???? Thanks for all the information to the original query. Mel.[8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 If you're a CP (both Brits) living full time (domiciled) in France then you have to be prepared to forego all legal ,civic and social rights of a legally recognised partnersip. You also have to be prepared to pay 60% IHT on all your worldwide wide assets which may be substantial by the time one of you dies. You can not do a PACS in France nor can you divorce in the U.K to do a PACS. At the moment both married and PACSed couples in France benefit from 0% IHT and PACSed couples have been brought more and more in line with married couples so that there is very little difference between them, indeed LA HALDE the French discrimination body has ruled that pension rights must be similar and I'm sure more and more cases will brought to LA HALDE where there are still differences. IF you live full time here as CPs then you may also want to review everything else in you life since in French terms you are stangers and have no automtic rights as a couple. Unless you are willing to fight for you rights then yes you might as well sell up but accidents do happen in the meantime and eventually an IHT bill will fall on your mat and you will be asked to pay 60% IHT. 152,000 tax free allowance on life insurance with 20% on excess on a 60% IHT bill on eveything your partners owns in the whole world may not be enough (and in any case you pay for life insurance and as far as I know you have to pay the notaire to do it in France) and you may have to sell your home to pay fo the tax bill. If you are interested in fighting for your rights then I suggest you email the following:[email protected] - englishFrench Jean-François COPE [[email protected]] François Charles Bousquet [[email protected]] Bureau du Sénateur Richard Yung [[email protected]] [email protected] Alain Lamassoure [[email protected]] Alima Boumediene-Thiery [[email protected]] hussein bourgi [[email protected]] English MARZOCCHI Ottavio [[email protected]] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] VAN-DER-VEUR Dennis [[email protected]] [email protected] [email protected] BOWLES Sharon [[email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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