PC

[idun]

I saw on the news today that a Headmaster is being reprimanded  for showing a Two Ronnies sketch at school, about a shop keeper and an arab in his shop.

I cannot remember seeing this sketch as I never liked the Two Ronnies, never found Ronnie Corbett funny. Although Four Candles is, I have seen that.

I will never speak french like a french person, if my life depended on it, I would not be able to get my tongue around a proper accent, and I make all sorts of mistakes, and I do have the mickey taken out of me. Friends do it a lot, and others do too.

Would it stop me speaking, no, should I be offended, WHY should I, it is often funny. 

Should anyone have been offended about a donkey's years old sketch??? Should it have been shown, who knows, it may have been on Gold tv last week.

At some point can't people calm down, there is enough on this planet that needs addressing other than a 'comedy' sketch.

[Patf]

I used to like Till Death Do Us Part (Alf Garnett etc.) Which would be banned now.

But I think the writer's aim was to ridicule extreme racist views as a way modifying them

Also showing that other national groups have racist views.

(eg Spike Milligan as an Indian - "I hate Pakis.")

[woolybanana]

Unfortunately that approach is no longer acceptable as the PC brigade definitely pack subtlety.

By the way, wasnt Spike Milligan mixed race?

[lindal1000]

Humour does change though. I doubt anyone under 30 would get the Two Ronnies, Morcome and Wise, Benny etc. Even I didn't really like them first time round. Some humour seems to be more timeless..I'm thinking of Dad's army, which basically poked fun and the social class divisions and snobbery of the day.. Even that though, I doubt holds much relevance for inner city kids. I would say the mistake he made was to assume humour from his day would be relevant or understood today.. nothing really to do with political correctness. If it's not funny then it's not funny.

[NickP]

So you're saying he got reprimanded for showing something that isn't funny?

[lindal1000]

I have no idea why he was reprimanded..but I would be reprimanded if I delivered a lesson or a plan that didn't meet the learning objectives of the module or course. If you were teaching about how humour changes over generations, or the representation of social class in humour, then it would seem very appropriate. I don't know the context of his lesson and neither does anyone else except for those involved.

[lindal1000]

So..for the context.. It wasn't shown to children but at a parents evening, with the aim of illustrating the importance of communication between parents and teachers.

"The clip, titled “The Sheikh in the Grocery Store”, was played at a parents’ information evening at Archway School in Stroud, Gloucestershire.

The 1985 sketch features Ronnie Corbett, wearing dark makeup and an Arabic keffiyeh, mispronouncing the names of items on his shopping list.

As he enters the store, Ronnie Barker’s shopkeeper says: “Old Ali Baba’s a bit off course. Morning Abdul.”

Corbett’s character tries to buy a series of items off a shopping list, mispronouncing words including “chocolate mousse” and “tomato puree”.

Barker’s shopkeeper initially misunderstands and then tries to correct Corbett’s character, but he swiftly mimics the flawed pronunciations when the frustrated sheikh placed a pile of cash on the counter.

Several parents complained it was offensive “I love The Two Ronnies but showing someone with their face blacked up in order to laugh at their accent, in this day and age? I was furious.”

Another added: “The Two Ronnies are brilliant, but there’s just no place for this racist humour anymore.”

And "A 2016 study by broadcasting regulator Ofcom found modern-day television and radio audiences were less tolerant of racist or discriminatory words than ever before.

The research found context was important, with viewers more likely to accept offensive language in realistic situations.

Tony Close, director of content standards at Ofcom, said at the time: “People draw the line at racist and discriminatory language – participants felt this was the most unacceptable of all.

“Most people see these words as derogatory and insulting.”

In 2014, departing Ofcom chief Ed Richards said some 1970s comedies could longer be shown because modern-day viewers found them offensive.

He told The Independent: “[There are] comedies from the Seventies which had certain racial stereotypes in them which are unimaginable today and if they were shown people would find them offensive and that wouldn’t just be people from black and ethnic minority communities, it would be everybody.

“I think the country has moved on in a very important way there.”

[YCCMB]

God, there were so many 70's sitcoms which weren't even all that funny at the time, many playing on racial stereotypes at worst, or at best using a token black person as the butt of cheap jokes.

Remember "Love thy neighbour" or "Rising Damp"? And there was that awful one about the language school which relied on nothing else but racial stereotypes for its entire premise.

As for "Dad's Army" I'm guessing the BBC has a reason for broadcasting it on a continuous loop for 50 years.

[Patf]

Betty - the one about the language school was based on the Hyman Kaplan books by Leo Rosten. Most of which I read and found funny at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_Kaplan

As for offensive language - I dislike the regular use of 'swear' words but no-one would take any notice if I asked for a ban.

[idun]

I still have no idea what the fuss was about.

Life was different years ago, and that was just the way it was.

Should we ignore it, ban it, apologise for it........... I am sick to death of all the apology stuff........ next we'll be asking the Italians to apologise for the romans invading, or the Scandinavians for the Vikings invading.

History is what it WAS. We should ignore it at our peril, but never apologise for it, or ban it, or ignore it.

I have only seen one comic in concert and would you believe that that was Chubby Brown, I didn't know who he was when we went, as we went with friends. That was in 1980. Apart from the language, he was quite funny.

Never the less, I don't think bad language is necessary to make a comic funny, but some don't swear, and I find them  that dire, I do believe I end up swearing, muttering bad language under my breath when I see them. And sometimes, I cannot avoid them on tv, because humour is very individual and other family members like some that I cannot stand. Yes there are other rooms, but not necessarily as warm as our main living room where the tv is.

[YCCMB]

It was all "of its time", of course, Idun. It's daft to apologise for something that was acceptable in its time, but I suppose it's indicative of the pace and trajectory of change that it's seen as unacceptable now, as it generally should be.

I can't see the Black and White Minstrel show being resurrected, for good reason.

I've collected "Tintin" books for years, and some of those are now seen in a very negative light, but at the time Hergé wrote them, the views expressed were very much the norm.

[lindal1000]

I don't think anyone has to apologise for the fact that it was shown then.. it was indicative of the time and in that sense it's interesting that times have changed and maybe people now don't find it funny anymore. I look at some things that I used to find funny or interesting in the 1980s and I can't understand why now.. but I did at the time. From what I read of it..the 'fuss' was by the media. A headmaster made, in his words, a poor choice of video clip to illustrate a point. A few parents complained, he apologised.. over and done with until the papers got hold of it and blew it up into a public incident! When I was at school the parents all complained about the sex education film we were shown. They thought it was too explicit, but because it wasn't really explicit enough none of us really understood it and so asked lots of awkward questions afterwards. Fortunately it never made the front pages of The Sun, as it would now.

[woolybanana]

Last night I watched a kids cartoon film set in Antartica (well, bits of it anyway); some of the characters were huge, blubbery sea lions or somesort, crude, agressive foul mouthed creatures.

So far so good, but they spoke with strng Aussi accents which I find racist and not permitted. It implied that all Aussies are like this and I am sure I have met or seen one who is not, havent I? There is Peter Tatchell of course

?????

[PaulT]

Perhaps the thing with Love Thy Neighbour was / is that the two main characters were / are good friends

Goodness Gracious Me was a comedy series by Asians. For me it showed that Asians have a sense of humour especially taking the mickey out of 'white' people by their Friday night treat being 'going out for an English'.

Why does the BBC keep showing Dads Army? Well, I suppose it is cheap but perhaps it is for the acting or in some cases lack of it.

John Le Mesurier asked one of the writers how he should play the part. The writer later admitted that he thought John only had one way of acting. He told him to play it as he saw fit. John decided to play the part as himself.

Arthur Lowe would ask the writers for assurance that non of his personality was being used. Many people who knew hime concur that Arthur Lowe and Captain Mainwearing were one and the same.

John Laurie was the same as shown in the series.

Here there was good entertainment in which the most controversial moment was the Town Clerks pronunciation of 'fleshings'.

Another reason why they keep showing it is because a large number of people get a great deal of pleasure from watching it....perhaps you have guessed I am one.

As for 'Till Death Us Do Part' surely the writer was highlighting how bigoted some of the characters were.

As for Spike Milligan, his father was Irish and his mother English but was born in India where he spent his early life.

Some writers use swear words where there seems to be no need but in some situations it would seem very strange if a writer did not use swear words.