hunting - then integration?

[odile]

how difficult is it to 'integrate' into rural France if you hate hunting? Anecdotes, advice, opinions

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="odile"]how difficult is it to 'integrate' into rural France if you hate hunting? Anecdotes, advice, opinions
[/quote]

I think it would be the same in any country, rural life is rural life in most European countries, and if you wish to 'integrate' then you either keep your opinions to yourself or you don't mix with people who carry out part of their life doing somthing that is abhorrent to you!!

If you are a 'towny' and I am not saying you are, you (one) will have no idea what make country folk tick! and you may not want to! My advice would be take people for what they are, if they turn out to be people that you would not ordinarily mix with then don't.

I am a country person and have views on country sports which I have learnt to keep to myself or share with like minded friends, Hunting can be a very touchy subject and you will not convince someone from the 'other side' that you are right and they are wrong, so my advice would be don't try, I would never dream of dissing any bodies lifestyle, as long as it was 'legal'. You either like someone or you don't.

[odile]

Thanks Jacqui - definitely not a townie - i was born and bred in the countryside, in the Swiss Jura mountains, where, than goodness, hunting is NOT ruling the countryside. i know YOU didn't mean any offence, but I get so cross when anybody who does not like hunting, or at least the vilest forms, like badger baiting or lamping- is derided as a townie. Many of my born and bred friends in East Leicestershire are constantly intimidated by the Hunts on their land- oops sorry about the cat, or shouted at, insulted, if they walk their dog and  try to drive to the next villag,etc. We wanted to go and live in the  countryside here in the Midlands, but didn't as we knew we wouldn't be able to integrate (it has happened to many I know) - if anything that is legal is acceptable - then what about badger baiting on your doorstep- perfectly legal in France - or seeing all your lapwings and small birds shot just for the sake of it. PERSONALLY I just couldn't live in a society where I couldn't give my sincere personal opinion without being derided or ostracized.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Jacqui Too "]

If you (one) are/is a 'towny' and I am not saying you are, you (one) will have no idea what make country folk tick! and you may not want to! My advice would be take people for what they are, if they turn out to be people that you would not ordinarily mix with then don't.

My highlight

[/quote]

My definition of 'country folk' in this instance is someone who lives off the land, where generations have survived on crops and their animals  and where the line between what they think is protecting their livelihood and cruelty may not be the same as others.

If one intends moving into an area that has a strong hunting tradition then one has three options: 1) Broadcast your opposing views and take the flack and never 'integrate'. 2) Accept that you wish to live there and shut up! 3) Don't move there in the first place, peace of mind and fitting in are more important.

p.s. Sorry about the use of 'one' not my normal speak as it were, but I was speaking in a broader sense rather than directly to the OP

[Chancer]

Odile

You speak of the intimidation in East Leicestershire but isnt hunting now banned in the UK?

Forgive me if I have got this wrong as I left the UK around the time the legislation was voted in.

One thing that always strikes me in the UK is that despite my old area having a thousand times more woodlands than my agricultural here in France there is nothing like the same amount of indeginous wildlife, having been hunted to extinction over a century ago.

So for me the admittedly selfish species protection that goes hand in hand with la chasse in my area is a positive.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="odile"]Many of my born and bred friends in East Leicestershire are constantly intimidated by the Hunts on their land- oops sorry about the cat, or shouted at, insulted, if they walk their dog and  try to drive to the next villag,etc. [/quote]

What are your friends? Hunt sabs? [8-)] That assertion is one of the most absurd statements I've read about the UK on LF.

[quote user="odile"]We wanted to go and live in the  countryside here in the Midlands, but didn't as we knew we wouldn't be able to integrate (it has happened to many I know)...

[/quote]

In Wiltshire we were on the borders of three very active, popular hunts and people who hunted were far out-numbered by people who were anti or just didn't care. Unless one was at a hunt function or out with people who did hunt, discussions about hunting were just not on the conversation agenda. It simply wasn't relevant to most people's daily life.

If "integration" into the English countryside is anticipated by individuals to be that difficult, I think those people should look at their own personality traits and attitudes because they may find the problem lies with them, not with the majority of the inhabitants of rural England... who happily feed birds and foxes in their gardens and watch badgers for pleasure - and have no interest in hunting.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="J.Rs gone native"]

You speak of the intimidation in East Leicestershire but isnt hunting now banned in the UK?

[/quote]

Hunting live quarry is banned but drag hunting, for eg, is not. During a drag hunt, the hounds may put up a wild fox which may be shot. It's a badly framed piece of legislation which is open to interpretation and has done little to properly "protect" wild animals.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="J.Rs gone native"]

...but isnt hunting now banned in the UK?

[/quote]

What is banned is 'Hunting with dogs' it is quite legal to kill foxes, rabbits, vermin with guns, poison, gas.

As catalpa say its is a 'a badly framed piece of legislation which is open to interpretation'

Any way this thread was not about the UK hunting scene but France where most/ all? hunting is legal!

Odile

Would you move to India and start spouting out about wanting to eat cows or want to drink alcohol in Saudi?

If you want to be accepted as a native then live as a native!

[Panda]

[quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="odile"]Many of my born and bred friends in East Leicestershire are constantly intimidated by the Hunts on their land- oops sorry about the cat, or shouted at, insulted, if they walk their dog and  try to drive to the next villag,etc. [/quote]
What are your friends? Hunt sabs? [8-)] That assertion is one of the most absurd statements I've read about the UK on LF. [/quote]


If looking for the absurd quote don't forget Odile was the poster who claimed that there are still many women in the UK who would not dare to disagree with their husbands at dinner parties, it made me nearly choke laughing when I read that!  I think that Odile has been stuck in some weird time warp....

[Russethouse]

 I'm very anti hunting for sport, but fail to see an objection to hunting for the pot which is the most usual type of hunting in France - far from it, it's possibly preferable to intesive farming in some cases.

Odile, I lived in the countryside for the greater part of my life and have only twice seen a hunt....in addition I have friends who do hunt and we just do not mention, they have their views I have mine - end of.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Panda"]

Odile claimed:

....there are still many women in the UK who would not dare to disagree with their husbands at dinner parties, ....[/quote]

What!!

My husband won't dare disagree with me, full stop!![:-))][;-)][;-)][Www][:P]

Edited just for you Panda[:D]

[Panda]

Indeed Jacqui, I do so hate the way you've edited that, it's looks like I said that now!

[JMB]

Ian Walthew has some interesting views on this subject.

www.ianwalthew.com/

[odile]

WOW!  i shall have to think hard before responding- so many points raised, both on hunting and women- time warp indeed, exactly how I felt (early 70s)- having just spent 2 wild years in London, including Hendrix at the Isle of Wight. You do make me laugh

[odile]

OK, women first, as they say. I can;t find the thread where I made my 'time warp' comments- but I am almost sure I never said woment were not allowed to give their opinion, just that they seemed not to have any, so just stated their husband's! Conversation went something like this ' what do you think about 'x' Liz'   reply, 'David says that...'   My reply 'how interesting, what about you, what do you think?'   =  'oh well, David thinks xyz'  my reply 'oh great, but personally, yourself, Jane or whoever,  what is YOUR opinion? = reply 'oh me, I don;t know, never thought about it. Again and again - very middle class estate, bankers, accountants, managing directors, medics - they did me a huge favour as it encouraged me to go to Uni as a mature student and have a great career. And yes, after a couple of years in London, a few years in Stafforshire - arriving in suburbian Leics was a shock - a time warp as you say. At the first dinner party we went to, the hostess did indicate it was time for ladies to withdraw after coffee, so men could have time on their own for port, stilton and a cigar, and intelligent conversation. YES, it did happen, and YES, I just couldn't believe it, and had steam coming out of my ears.

Since then, we moved away from a posh estate - and have made many many fantastic friends- and all our women friends HAVE opinions and ideas and can hold their own fantastically! We don;t do dinner parties, but have great suppers with lively conversation. but because of my OH's job, still know many who still go on as above!

No, my friends are not hunt sabbers. One of them was, sadly he passed away recently. He was the gentlest of men and born and bred in the East Leics countryside, and amazingly knowledgeable. We all miss him dearly. My friends just live there, mostly where they were born and bred. Many of them, like me, have been fighting against badger baiting and illegal blocking of setts by hunts, and the illegal killing (gassing or slurrying, eg. filling live setts, often with cubs, with tons of slurry/manure, and the illegal lamping of badgers. Their tyres have been slashed, they cats or other pets torn to shreds, their lands invaded, their livestocks killed by wayward dogs. They have been pushed (even one of them is severely physically handicapped), insulted, sworn at, the list is endless. Being born and bred in the Swiss Jura, just over the French border, I have had many bad experiences since I was a small child walking or mushrooming with dad with hunters, often blind drunk and shooting at everything that moves. Where I lived (and will live again soon) - you never know which country you are in, and from September onwards, walking or mushrooming on French side is unpleasant at best, deadly at worst- and totally impossible with our dog. She was left by the roadside by her hunting owner, and she is absolutely terrified of gunshot. So- a townie moi! So yes, we chose option 3 - NOT living in the UK countryside because of hunting. Personally, being quiet about something I feel strongly about in order to enjoy what would otherwise be an iddylic (sp?) lifestyle would seem hypocritical- I just wouldn't feel comfortable about it. I couldn't live where there is child labour, or abuse of women .... or animals.

[Chancer]

Are you a vegi-terrorist as well by any chance?

[odile]

cheap , soooooo  cheap. let's count to dix and take the dog for a walk! Bonne journee.

By the way, do you know what is involved in badger digging? Not quite like a quick neat shot of a lapin for the pot. I'll describe the activites if you wish- but it isn't for the fainthearted.

[Catalpa]

[quote user="odile"]

By the way, do you know what is involved in badger digging?

[/quote]

Why would that need to be explained on this forum? I would be very surprised if anyone on CF was involved in or

accepting of badger-baiting. People who hunt foxes or shoot rabbits,

hares, birds or list fishing as a leisure pursuit are not, due to their

interest in those things, equally likely to be involved in

badger-baiting. No matter how someone's prejudices might encourage one

to believe it.

Sometimes obsessive pursuit of - and reference to - a particular, personal bête noire can

antagonise the very people who are already on your side. That does

serious issues - such as badger-baiting, coq-fighting etc - a severe

disservice.

[Boiling a frog]

If the OP hates hunting then no amount of logical debate is going to change their mind .They would be better buying a house in a country where these is no hunting.

As for ranting on about badger baiting  perhaps it would be more usefull if she/he focused her attentions on where the alleged problems(according to her) lie,ie the UK.

[odile]

a description of what is involved would serve the purpose of clearly describing the difference between what most of us would see as 'acceptable' or even 'respectable' forms of hunting (even though we may not wish to take part) - like selective shooting, quickly and cleanly, for the pot... and at the other extreme the gory, extremely cruel (for both dogs and badgers) of badger digging/baiting. Not much difference between digging and baiting - the 2nd form involves taking the animals away for fighting in a pit later. Both forms involve the use of big pincers, spades and pick axes (and that is NOT just for the digging either). Neither is legal in the UK but still goes on, and is, I'm afraid, very closely linked to official fox hunts, but not generally perpetrated by those on horses. Huge amount of macho pride is involved in owning the best dogs, which get badly maimed in the process (thus the spades for helping them a bit - smashin a jaw or rear end usually is very useful). Badgers are equipped with self locking jaws which cannot be prized open, so the only way to release a dog is to...   Ranting? That is the reality of a sport still legal and very much practised in France - with huge competitions at local and national level organized. As I mentionned before in Allier last year, in Burgundy recently. And they do this in the middle of the cubbing season so cubs are left to starve underground if they are not maimed or killed by the dogs. this thread was NOT about badger digging - but on how to cope with neighbours who hunt. If you had ever witnessed the results of badger digging on one of the local setts you have watched for years... I believe you MIGHT be ranting. Perhaps YOU wouldn't care. I could have been a lot more graphic in the above descriptions, but chose not to for other posters sake- and my own. I am not a bunny hugger, I don't hate hunting per se- but to think this form of hunting is still legal in France and a source of great pride is a great shame. Plenty on u-tube if you have the guts for it.

[WJT]

You go girl! 

Just thought I would show a little support. [:)] By the way, I am very proud to admit that I HATE hunting and deplore anyone that kills for pleasure whether it be a slow cruel death or quick,  full stop. Therefore, I have no time or desire to try to integrate or socialise with anyone that does no matter where I live and that would include any country, rural or urban, or planet for that matter.

[odile]

bless WJT - and thank you so much for having the guts to come out and support me.

[odile]

wait for it - bet soon be message re the pain of veg being pulled out of the ground, or whatever

[Russethouse]

Are you certain your neighbours actually hunt for pleasure and not for the pot ? Do they offer you badger sausages or fox burgers ?

 

[odile]

I haven't got neighbours who hunt - if you read the whole thread, you will see that I have carefully chosen not to live where there are hunters. As far as I know, fox hunting or badger baiting is not done for the pot- remains are fed to the dogs- including dogs who do not have the lust for hunting.