Compromis and Acte de Vente

[Suninfrance]

When we brought our current house, we signed the paperwork for the Compromis de Vente and nothing was amiss.  When we came to sign the Acte de Vente (at a different Notaires) there was an issue with a servitude which we had not been told about and thought this issue had been resolved.  Our copy of the Acte de Vente is signed and the servitude is "pour tout les temps".

However, on the Notaire stamped copy we received after the sale, our signatures are not on any copies of any of the pages and there is an extra page stating that the servitude is only availalble to us and basically not "tout les temps".  We did not check this as 1) our french is not that good, and 2) we trusted the notaire to make sure everything was legally correct.

Is this legal to add an extra page with a change to conditions after the document has been signed and and money exchanged.

Look forward to your views on this one.

We are trying to sell the house and this clause is causing us all sorts of problems.  Are there any legal eagles out there

[idun]

All our paperwork had both our initials on every single page, I would have thought that that was how it should be and no 'add ons' later.

Notaires, in my experience are very good at getting their fee and all the taxes due. For the rest, I would not count on them to want anything to do with 'the clients real interests', I 'm afraid.

[NormanH]

I am pretty sure we have no notaires among us, though there may be a retired solicitor or legal person.

1) The Compromis doesn't much count I'm afraid once the acte has been signed.

2) It sounds very strange that the second copy you received from the Notaire didn't have your signatures, as usually you initial every page and sign at the end. There should also be any blank pages or any crossings out etc accounted for

 It sounds as if a new version was made, not just the extra page.

It is a pity that you didn't query this at the time, but that is past.

I really think you need professional advice and I suggest you might contact the local Chambre de Notaires

http://www.chambre-interdep-19-23-87.notaires.fr/composition-chambre-des-notaires-du-limousin.html

[Pickles]

[quote user="NormanH"]I am pretty sure we have no notaires among us, though there may be a retired solicitor or legal person.

1) The Compromis doesn't much count I'm afraid once the acte has been signed.

2) It sounds very strange that the second copy you received from the Notaire didn't have your signatures, as usually you initial every page and sign at the end. There should also be any blank pages or any crossings out etc accounted for

It sounds as if a new version was made, not just the extra page.

It is a pity that you didn't query this at the time, but that is past.

I really think you need professional advice and I suggest you might contact the local Chambre de Notaires

http://www.chambre-interdep-19-23-87.notaires.fr/composition-chambre-des-notaires-du-limousin.html[/quote]

Seconded.

I had a look at several of our legal documents, including an acte authentique. NONE of the official bound copies of the lodged documents were initialled or signed by us, but all were certified as authentic copies by the notaire (signature and seal on the final page, notaire's initials on other pages).

I noted that the acte authentique contained a clause which basically said it replaced any previous agreements in their entirety. Now, I haven't yet compared the bound acte authentique with the signed copy that we were given at the time of the purchase, but my first impression was that there was no difference, apart from the sentences certifying the copy.

You should compare the copy that you took from the signing of the acte with that which you have received from the cadastral register. If they are materially different then you need professional help. If, however, they are the same but different from the compromis, then I think that is normal. The first time we purchased over here, a translator was arranged for us as it is obviously necessary to ensure that you understand what you are signing. On subsequent legal occasions, we had to sign to say that we understood French well enough that we did not want or need a translator.

[NormanH]

The first time we purchased over here, a translator was arranged for us

as it is obviously necessary to ensure that you understand what you are

signing. On subsequent legal occasions, we had to sign to say that we

understood French well enough that we did not want or need a translator.

That certainly used to be standard practice. I was employed a few times in the rôle by a local notaire in the 90s whose local accent was rather strong and so difficult for even French-speaking British newcomers to follow.

He told me that this clause was there to prevent people being able to claim that they had been deliberately mislead  and demanding an annulation of the sale, rather as with  the Vice Caché I have osted about on another thread.

I doubt that this in itself would be enough to help you, but if things turn nasty and that clause isn"t  there it might be some ammubitiçn

[Suninfrance]

All helpful advice.  I have also looked through the documents we received from the Notaires from our two previous houses and our signatures do not appear on the original stamped document sent by the notaire.

For this house. the copy of the document we signed at the Notaires differs from the one sent to us with the notaires stamp and signature, in that there is an extra page outlining the difference in the servitude.   Whereas page 4 on the copy we signed states that the servitude gives us access "for all time", the stamped document has another page 4 which says that we only have this access as long as we live in our house and do not sell, and the owner of the land with the servitude does not sell.  Page 5 of this new document however, states the same as the original page 4 on the copy we signed.

When we signed the Compromis it was at an office in our local town, and we had an interpreter.  When we came to the final signing, two days before the signing, we were told by the seller that this would take place in a different office in a different town as the Notaire there "spoke English" and therefore we would not need to pay an interpreter.  I thought this was a bit odd at the time, but it appears that the new Notaire used to work at the first office and was still attached to, but in a different location.  Anyway - she did speak some English and I think things did get a bit lost in translation when it was announced at the final signing about this change to the servitude, but were led to believe that it would be sorted out and so we signed.  We did not think to look at the document after it was returned from the Notaire with her official stamp, because we believed it had been dealt with, but it is clear that the document we signed and the document we received are most definately different and as we did not agree to the change, feel we have been duped by the notaire, the previous owners of the house and the person who changed the nature of the servitude (who, by the way was English). 

I think to try and sort this out will be very long and very costly, time and money we don't have. 

[NormanH]

Could a new servitude be agreed for your sale, one for the duration of the next ownership?

It might be better to look forward for a solution...

[nomoss]

For what it's worth, I looked at the documents for the last three houses we have bought here. There are variations, maybe due to different Notaires, different years, or different Départements[8-)]

The only document for each house, apart from the bound copies of the Actes, ia a copy of the Compromis with all the signatures. Presumably the original signed copy of the Acte is kept by the Notaire.

For the first, in 1998, the bound document sent by the Notaire is a photocopy of the Acte with all the signatures, with a red ink rubber stamp on the first page saying Stamp Duty is paid.

For the second, in 2000, the bound document is a clean printing with both an adhesive duty stamp and the Notaire's initials on each page.

For the third, in 2010, again, no copy of the Acte we signed, and the bound copy is again a clean printing with the Notaire's rubber stamp in red plus her signature on each page.

I have never checked the documents word for word against other copies nor compared with them the Compromis, but I did in every case check the important details when we received the bound versions, to make sure they corresponded with what we had agreed and signed.