SACEM - Is this a scam

[Mike1958]

I have received a letter from SACEM who are saying that if we play music, or have the TV available to our guests that we have to pay a fee. Can anyone please advise whether this is correct?

Many thanks in anticipation.

[Quillan]

I did a search on SACEM and it does exist and it is (at an initial glance) about music etc and protecting musicians rights etc. I did a search within the site on Chambres d'hôtes and the were about 15 results but I don't have the time to read them all at the moment. You could check the name and address on the website and compare it against the letter you have received. It may be legit because if you think about it in letting your guests watch telly you are in fact, technically, entertaining them. Bit like putting on a DVD for them, you are then giving a 'public screening' which is breaking the terms of the agreement you had with the film company when you bought the DVD and play it. It is the sort of thing you never really think about and I am sure we have all put on the news, a footbal match or a 'soap' for a guest at some time or another.

So, it's probably correct but worth checking out.

[Cat]

Here are the forum discussions about SACEM that Quillan mentioned... http://www.completefrance.com/cs/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=sacem&f=&u=

[cassis]

Hi Mike

Seeing your message reminded me of a discussion I read on another forum some time ago on this subject - see here:

http://www.toprural.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5258&highlight=sacem&page=5

That page is in the middle of the topic.  Picking the bones out of it, the argument on that forum seems to hinge on whether you're running a gite or a chambre d'hôte and do you pay taxe professionnelle.  But even then, there are conflicting viewpoints, natch!  Not only performing rights, but also extra TV licences are mentioned.

[quote]La diffusion de musique et/ou d’images dans les lieux ouverts au public nécessite l’autorisation préalable de la SACEM et le paiement des redevances d’auteur.

De plus, tout diffuseur devra acquitter la rémunération due aux artistes-interprètes et producteur de phonogramme dite «Droits Voisins» auprès de la SPRE.

La redevance audiovisuelle s’applique par téléviseur ; son montant est évalué en fonction du nombre de postes et du lieu d’installation des appareils.[/quote]

Soooo .... is a chambre d'hôte or a gîte actually "a place open to the public"?  It's not like a café, is it?  But some regional authorities do seem to think that performing rights are payable - like this guideline published by the Vosges Tourist board, and the Ardennes board from which I lifted the quote above.

http://www.tourismevosges.fr/

[cassis]

The Gazette of Gites de France Alpes Haut-Provence also seem to think it is payable

Here's a link to their first bulletin of this year and an extract thereof:

www.gites-de-france

Fiscal : Rappel———————————————————————————————————————————

la SACEM : Tout propriétaire en est redevable si les chambres et/ou les pièces communes sont équipées de

télévision, chaîne HIFI ou tout autre appareil de diffusion.

Redevance Audiovisuelle : Il se présente 3 cas possibles :

1. Soit les locaux sont soumis à la Taxe Professionnelle dans ce cas, la redevance est due pour chaque poste.

2. Soit les locaux sont soumis à la Taxe d’Habitation, dans ce cas une seule redevance est due quel que soit le

nombre de poste.

3. Pour les structures qui seraient soumis au deux, le 1er cas s’applique.

[nimportequoi]

I received a letter from them yesterday and don't know whether to pay it or not. I've got 3 gites and there are TV's in all of them, for which I already pay 320€ for redevance audiovisuelle. I really don't want to have to pay anymore on top of this.

[Chancer]

Bars, restaurants and brasseries have to pay or they cannot even play a radio, the tax is based on the number of seats/tables for customers including those outside and is quite hefty. It costs even more if they have a TV.

How much are they trying to extort from you?

[nimportequoi]

On my letter, it says up to 3 bedrooms, 78,48HT, above 3 bedrooms, 156,92 HT. On the accompanying form it does state Chambre d'Hotes, so as I have gîtes, maybe they have sent it to me in error [Www]

[cassis]

Whatever you do, don't suggest it was a mistake on their part.  [;-)]

[NormanH]

The SACEM are certainmy not scammers, and they don't joke!

While I believe it is a private, not a Governlmental organisation you will need to have made the correct declarations to them if you have a "contrôl"

[nimportequoi]

[quote user="cassis"]Whatever you do, don't suggest it was a mistake on their part.  [;-)]

[/quote]

[:D][:D]

I may not put it like that, but I will query why they have send me a form for Ch d'H when I'm registered as something completely different at the ch de com. Even if I do have to pay, I think I'd only be eligible to pay the up to 3 televisions, which would be 100€ so not too bad. They say it is judged on number of bedrooms, but as none of my bedrooms have TVs, I hope they are reasonable and only make me pay for up to three, which is what I have in the gites in total.

Apologies for hijacking OP's thread [:$]

[les heureux]

Hi Mike,

We ran a B&B in Normandie for 17 years, about 10 years ago we received a letter from SACEM, they told us we had to pay a license for each televison we had in the guests area, plus payments for music  played also.  We were registered with Gites de France whom I contacted, they told me it was correct although I argued the point.  In the end I removed the television and stereo in the guest area, wrote to SACEM and told them there was no televisions or music in the guest areas of the house (we had six rooms), I received about three more letters from them warning that they could inspect the house, I invited them to come but they never did, in the end they gave up and the television and Stereo were put back into the guests area. I never had any other problems from them, it worked for me but you must do as you think, they will try and get money from you any way they can if you think you are a soft touch, take advice from your French friends, they have all the answers to get round these problems.  By the way we were classed as a business as we paid tax professional, so maybe this is why we were contacted. 

Best of luck hope your B&B is a huge success!