Payment from outside UK

[Pippa]

Hi,

I have read a couple of recent topics about scams and I am a little worried that all proposals to pay that are not by cheque will be viewed with suspicion.  In the Netherlands, where I live, cheques do not exist.  If I want to pay someone then he gives me his bank details and I arrange the payment through my bank.  When I have made a similar proposal to pay the rent for a gite, I have been met by incomprehension.  What is the accepted method of payment if cheque is not an option?

Pippa

[Clair]

Hi

I too was concerned when my Spanish guests told me they wanted my (French) bank details for a payment by transfer... But I assumed that since these details are made available by the bank in my cheque-book to facilitate payments to EDF and France Telecom and such like, it would be safe to pass them on to someone who wanted to pay money IN (as opposed to me paying OUT!). It all worked out fine with them and with the English family who also paid via bank transfer from the UK.

Earlier this summer, I had a booking enquiry from Bangkok, (English name but terrible spelling) wanting to book for 2 weeks. He offered to ask a French-based work colleague who owed him money to pay me from France, with a cheque exceeding the value I wanted for the booking. I was then to send the difference to his travel agent back in Bangkok so he could make travel arrangements to come over... Anyway, I refused politely to consider his booking until I received a deposit cheque as stipulated in my booking terms and I never heard from him again. Later I read of a similar scam in the Sunday Times, where the person HAD agreed to receive the cheque, sent the difference by money transfer only to find out the original cheque had bounced and the other party had made off with the excess money...

I usually request money by transfer to moneybookers or by Euro cheque as I do not have a Sterling account . This was no problem this year, our first, and we had English, Spanish and French families this summer...

I seem to remember reading a lot about scams involving bank accounts and African money looking for a foreign account, but it is true I think that in general in the UK, you are advised NOT to give out your bank details...

 

[Wibblywobbly]

Perhaps I can assist?

I have worked for a Dutch ethical bank for a couple of years designing a completely new banking platform for them. One of interesting things about these projects is that you learn that what we take for granted as the 'norm' in the UK is looked upon by Europeans as 'strange'.

Yes, cheque books are unheard of in the Netherlands, in fact they didn't have a clue what we were talking about when we mentioned them. The notion that someone writes money on a slip of paper, signs it and gives it to someone, who takes it to their bank and gives it to them etc etc was a total mystery to them. They don't have cheques, clearing or anything like that. Money goes between accounts pure and simple. Even the way that their banks lend money is totally different.

If you are seeking ways to accept payment I suggest either direct bank transfer, either through internet banking or BACS. These are secure and guaranteed payment is the result. Internet transfers usually take 3 days, but it is still quicker that faffing about with cheques. The best way is to operate a UK bank account and ask for the deposit to be made there. The sender only needs your account name, sort code and account number. Many people believe that there is some risk in divulging these details, but there isn't, no one can milk your account with these details, the banks are not that daft, and if you give anyone a cheque then they have all of these details anyway.

You could also try Paypal or Nochex, they are instant money transfers, though you may get stung with commission. Paypal is widely used on Ebay as it too offers instant and guaranteed payment. It can also cope with foreign currency transactions.

I hope that this explains things!

Regards

Rob Gardner

 

[Chauffour]

[quote]Hi, I have read a couple of recent topics about scams and I am a little worried that all proposals to pay that are not by cheque will be viewed with suspicion. In the Netherlands, where I live, cheq...[/quote]

we have just send a cheque in the Nederlands, a refund for a deposit, and it has been cashed without problems!

 

[Pippa]

Hi,

I was interested to see the comments.  I was writing as prospective guest rather than host.  The problem I have found is with hosts who want to be paid in GBP and who dont want to accept a euro payment.  I find this a little strange as both times this has happenned the hosts were resident in France so I would have thought that some euros might be useful from time to time.

Pippa

[Quillan]

I’m in the wrong part of the Forum because I run a B&B but the payment and deposit issue is the same.

 

Our terms are quite simple, cash, Euro Travellers Cheques (these cost us nothing to cash) or French bank cheques. We don’t have a UK bank account any more because we live in France and anyway English banks want loads of money to transfer the money across (£25 if you are with the Abbey). We don’t have credit/debit card facilities which we thought would be a problem but it isn’t. Bank transfers also work and are very common in Europe you just give the account name, IBAN and BIC numbers and it costs the sender 5 Euros for the transaction so you don’t loose anything. As somebody already stated the banks are 'switched on' and fraud does not happen. I guess the systems you look at (as the person collecting the money) are those that cost you nothing, hence we don’t have a card machine.

[Miki]

...........Bank transfers also work and are very common in Europe you just give the account name, IBAN and BIC numbers and it costs the sender 5 Euros for the transaction so you don’t loose anything

Chris,

If only that was true for many others. Here in Brittany, lots of us find the charges can be a rip off.

5 euros per transaction is only a third of the cost that most of our clients have had to pay using a Iban/Swift electronic payment inter bank.

A chap from Oz coming here next year sent out 300 € from Adelaide and we received 284.55 € in our account in Dinan

An Italian last month sent 150 euros, we received 135.68 €

These are 2 recent amounts, which mirror previous Iban/Swift payments we have received. We tell them all to ensure that the money we require is the amount we receive, often it is and often it is not. In nearly all cases the charges are aaround 15 euros, just like the old 90 odd francs before.

You must be lucky in your region to get that kind of deal, or your clients anyway!!

Card machines cost you money, true Chris but my golly, they can earn you plenty as well plus they give you security of payment if there is a no show from any guests.  I have to say though, I don't like them, they can be a pain in the butt, especially at the moment, so this year we are looking in to Nochex and other online payments.

Nochex only accept UK clients and you must have a UK bank account, I am kind of surprised you do not have a UK bank account, very useful we find and the Impots simply offer a rate of exchange for declarations of earned income from the UK.

We also find it extremely useful to have a bank account for when we are in the UK and more importantly perhaps (for them !  to get money to our kids in the UK.

 

 

[Teamedup]

I don't understand why you have lost money on these transactions, in the euro zone at least, Miki.

Using the recent regs as long as they have marked 'share' on the transfer then the client should not really pay more than around 5euros to transfer the money, (up to 1250 euros) within the 'old' EU, and the share means that there should be no charge at your end. The alternative is that the client signs on the transfer form that they accept all charges ofcourse, but this would be more expensive for them. If you are being charged, then your client or their bank has done the transaction 'badly', so it should be up to them to sort it out between themselves.

I send money back to the UK every month always under 1200 and pay 3.99euros each time and that is it in total. I have checked about these regs with both my french and british bank and for all it took several months for my french bank to get the hang of it, they did get there in the end. The irony being that my british bank, who made no mistake what so ever, actually reimbursed me for the mistakes made by the french bank......

[Quillan]

Hi Miki,

Sorry I shoud have explained, we are talking Euro's only. The law is that it must not cost more than the internal cost (say moving from one account in France to another persons account in France) of moving Euros when moving Euroes between other Euro states. So it costs 5€ to move money between say France and Germany or Spain. England, not being in the Euro zone, can charge what it likes although the norm is around £25 via a bank. Interesting to note Teamedup's comment because I checked in my Franch bank, it costs less to send money to England from France than to send it to France from England.

As I said we get people to send us Euro Travellers Cheques by registered post, it costs them to buy but nothing for us to cash and they have the grief.

Having said all this we hardly ever ask for a deposit, it's to complicated. We have had one no show in two seasons (they did email us about 10:00pm on the night they were suppose to be here). We do make it very clear than unless previously agreed we reserve the right to re-let the room after 18:00 but we are running a B&B not a gite which I apprecieate is very different when it comes to re-letting at short notice.

I guess I am very lucky but it works for me (and her).

[Cerise]

Hi Chris

We have the same terms as you.  However, my lovely bank has charged me 2 euros for paying in Euro Travellers Cheques, which is I suppose better than the 21 euros they charged for the 150 euro money order!!

Cash or French cheques seem to be the order of the day, and we too do not take deposits.  Gor gites I think deposits are essential so wish someone would come up with a cheaper way of doing things.

Maggi

 

 

[Quillan]

[quote]Hi Chris We have the same terms as you. However, my lovely bank has charged me 2 euros for paying in Euro Travellers Cheques, which is I suppose better than the 21 euros they charged for the 150 eur...[/quote]

Maggie,

It's good wheeze for the banks these Travellers Cheques, here is a tip. Take cash for the cheques then pay the cash in. If you ask them to put them straight in to your account they charge but to pay cash they can't, it's illegal and is covered by the terms of the Travellers Cheques people. My bank is really good becasue they know that I know if you know what I mean so no money actually crosses my palm but on the computer it's paid to me in cash then paid in to my bank account as cash. Try it and see what happens.

[Teamedup]

That is right Quillan, it would cost me a lot more if I had to transfer money each month from the UK to France. Now I am sorted out with the 3.99euros each time, I am happy with that. Ofcourse I am at the mercy of the exchange rates every time, but that was ever the case since we've been here.

 

As I said, how the transfer is marked makes the world of difference, it asks on the forms:

SHARE

BEN

OUR

 

 This doesn't actually make sense as the only one of these titles that doesn't charge at the other end is 'share'.  Whereas if one just reads the form it would seem that the sender would have all the costs to pay if they marked 'our', but in fact 'our' leads to the beneficiary being charged too.  Ah well, share does work like this, so now we have it sussed we are happy. I have also sent money to Germany and it all went through fine also at 3.99 euros. Incidentally the SWIFT and IBAN numbers being right are absolutely essential.

[Miki]

 don't understand why you have lost money on these transactions, in the euro zone at least, Miki.

I dont lose money TU, it is the client that loses. We always insist, that what is asked for is, what we require net. I guess the Aussies not being in the eurozone have to pay through the nose and as for the poor Italians, they always pay around 15 euros for the transfer and I keep telling them "give me your credit card details, it is free"  but due to the high card fraudulence in Italy, many, not all, do not like to give you their details.

Using the recent regs as long as they have marked 'share' on the transfer then the client should not really pay more than around 5euros to transfer the money, (up to 1250 euros) within the 'old' EU, and the share means that there should be no charge at your end. The alternative is that the client signs on the transfer form that they accept all charges ofcourse, but this would be more expensive for them.

That is exactly what happens, as I said we insist that the client pays all charges or offers us their card details for the quickest way and of course it is free.

 If you are being charged, then your client or their bank has done the transaction 'badly', so it should be up to them to sort it out between themselves.

See above comments, we get a figure received and if it is not up to the full amount, then the client is informed and told they can pay the rest on departure from our place.

[Teamedup]

Miki, I realised that you would be asking your customers for the difference, but, this is still costing you isn't it, in time if nothing else, and I don't know how you feel about your time, but I am rather fond of things going through smoothly and not having mine wasted.

 

[Miki]

Miki, I realised that you would be asking your customers for the difference, but, this is still costing you isn't it, in time if nothing else, and I don't know how you feel about your time, but I am rather fond of things going through smoothly and not having mine wasted.

TU,

It doesn't cost us anything, provided the client tells their bank what net figure has to arrive at our bank. I guess it takes a little bit of our time but we are a business at the end of the day and so some things take time but that is what we have to do.

If you want things to run smoothly, don't go near a bank but then what would we do then

Catch 22 ..............

We are looking at new ways but there is not that much choice about. PayPal charge smaller biz like us around 3.9% plus 25p per transaction and the client has to join PayPal before they can send us money, too much flipping mucking about for us to even bother with them. Nochex is cheaper but only for UK clients, looks like our bank will still be collecting their exhorbitant annual fees for our credit card appareil then !

[Paolo]

I have started taking PayPal payments and I am very happy with it. I invite guests to share the 3.9% commission, and they are happy to. It is much more convenient for people outside the Euro/Pound zone than the other options I have, which are bank transfer and bank draft/money order. They don't have to go and queue in a bank, or several banks in some cases. Sometimes they have to be authorised by PayPal before they can send money, but this is painless enough.

I like the fact it is instant too, and when it reaches your PayPal account you can transfer it online into your bank account - at no charge. Yes, miracles do happen!

When I get a bank transfer I almost always pay a £6 commission, which is half of the total. Sometimes the sender specifies I should pay the whole £12. So I don't mind paying half of the 3.9% for PayPal.

Paolo

[Fontremy]

Off topic I know but can you folks in the Netherlands advise on where Dutch and Belgians go to book their gite holidays? I assume it's the internet, but which are the most popular sites?