UK registered company and working legally?

[Kozmod]

I have recently been quoted by an english builder who is registered in the UK (something he says is perfectly legal and produces a letter from DWP to prove it) along with his 15 polish workers who are also registered in the UK but working over here for him.

My neighbour is telling me that this is not a legal practice and the english builder and the polish workers, are in fact working illegally. My neighbour, who is french, also tells me I risk deportation should the gendarmes catch him on my premises. I am obviously very wary of all this, but their price is a 1/3 the cost of all the other builders - I want the job done at the best price obviously but not at the risk of being kicked out of France! Does anyone have any information or experience of this?

[Lilly]

Now they say a little knowledge is dangerous but for what its worth we picked this up on our chambre de metiers course so not a lot of credance there!! my understanding is that if said builder has a UK registered Limited company stress Limited company it is possible for him to work here in France legally HOWEVER he must have Decinale insurance to his work here and assurace civil professional as it is illegal to work without it and any work he does for you is not covered. should you wish to sell at a later date within ten years you will need to provide proof of this cover to the Notaire or risk losing the sale, now there was a builder on our course who was convinced his public liability cover was indeed a Decinnale he was later proved wrong , I don't know if you risk being thrown out of France sounds a bit extreme to me , but in any case non of the above reasons seem good enough to me to choose this builder if anything went wrong as they sooo often do here you would not have a leg to stand on.  My advice would be get a few more devis and choose the best based on a fair price and reputation. Best of luck

[Cerise]

I believe it can be legal - there is an English architect witrh band of German workers doing a big renovation near us and husband's company has also worked there.  French boss says these guys are legal despite the fact it 'c'est pas normale'.  I'm sure if they weren't one of the French companies working there would have done something about it!

Why not ask the man for copies of his insurance (you'd do that for a French company) and check with chambre de metiers?  Can he tell you of any other works he has done - if not how do you know he is any good?

[Panda]

This question comes up quite a lot and I always think about things like the big wooden houses made and erected by Germans all over Europe.  What is the difference?  There is one somewhere in this area apparently which was shipped in and erected by a German team working in France.  I think the free trade agreement must cover the ability for English registered companies to carry out work in France. 

There are loads of polish workers (don't know about their employment status but they drive polish vans) here in the charente at the moment and the ones I've encountered can't speak any French so it's fun standing behind them in the builders merchants as everyone is using hand signals and tries every language to try and find a common one!  No one seems to be making any fuss about them, they are on a local small building site erecting houses at break neck speed.  It's interesting actually as another builder (French) is doing a new house about 2km away and he is just up to roof level whereas these polish guys are on their third house,!!

There were also a crew working on a local equestrian centre and they worked everyday and every hour they could, definitely pas normal!!  [:D]

[Russethouse]

Kozmod, If something crops up in 4 or 5 years that would normally be covered by the Decenial(sp) , do you believe you will be able to get the builder to put it right ?

Price is important, but value for money is possibly a better indicator.

[Tony F Dordogne]

Kozmod, I'd ask the guy to come with you to the CdM to prove that he's legal but what comes to mind is that if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.  Has he given you a written devis and if he's registered in the UK, have you checked his registration with Companies House?

Does he want payment in cash or by cheque, EWuros or £ sterling because if he wants £ and cash or even Euros and cash I'd be very wary.

[Kozmod]

I take on board everyone's comments thank you for that. This is obviously a grey area, though this does beg the question - how or why would the DWP produce this letter if they didnt firmly believe that UK citizens as part of the EU could not work here in France legally , the letter does imply a time limit of two years, and the said builder is not  a limited company  just registered as a sole trader. He is requesting payment in euros and produces a quote using his french address and french banking details, all of which I think he firmly believes he is legal.

[Panda]

Hmm, what does the letter from the DWP actually say, Ican't imagine them producing something personalised for him to help his business, is it a general code of working in Europe type document?

He is making things worse by having a french address and banking details, for sure if he is based here full time he HAS to be registered here and pay taxes here. 

[Boiling a frog]

Ask him and get him to show you the work permits which are required by his Polish workers .They do not have free access to the French labour market.

http://www.europa.eu.int/eures/main.jsp?acro=free&lang=en&countryId=FR&fromCountryId=PL&accessing=0&content=1&restrictions=1&step=2

 

 

[Will]

There are European cross-border regulations intended to promote the free movement of workers. Under those regulations a British company can legally send its employees overseas on assignments, with each individual being covered by an E101 form which will give them access to the host country's health system, on  the same basis as a resident of that country. As an E101 is valid for one year it is of limited value for longer-term projects.

Where this system falls short is when the host country has particular requirements which may not be met by visiting workers - and the French insurance requirements are an excellent example of this. Although it is possible to get public liability insurance covering working overseas this may or may not be acceptable to the French authorities. But the French requirement for building companies and tradesmen to carry assurance décenniale is, as other answers have confirmed, a different matter altogether. As far as we are aware, a condition of obtaining that insurance is that you have to be registered in France. The only possible way around this is for the builder to give you a written ten year warranty covering the works, though it is debatable whether even this is legally acceptable.

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Lilly"]

but in any case non of the above reasons seem good enough to me to choose this builder [/quote]

One third of the price of all other builders (especially if they work at 3 times the speed) is a very compelling reason.

I would dearly love to bring over a team of Polish or whatever nationality builders, instead I must continue to work alone 3 times slower than the French workers!

[BJSLIV]

There is no provision under current EU law for the free movement of services. Its due to come in in a few years time. At present free movement applies only to goods and labour.

So if your English builder wants to do your job he will have to register and have all the insurances and registrations that an equivalent French outfit would need.

On big contracts I suspect that the way that it works is that the main contractor sub-contacts to the East Europeans, bringing them under the main contractors registrations.

I fear that if you suddenly have a job underway with a large team of foreign workers, you will attract the attention of the Gendarmerie and/or Inspection De Travail.

So check that he has all the necessary French paperwork. UK papers mean nothing in this situation, and you will be OK.

Surprisingly with like for like quality, there often isn't much to choose between the price of having building work done in the UK compared to France. the problem in France isn't the price its finding someone.

i would have great reservations about anyone who can do the price for a third of a correct French quote. Are you sure that you aren't comparing good quality against bad, or alternatively a price from someone who simply doesn't want the job?

 

[jon]

Russet house has a very valid point.......

You will probibly not be able to find your builder again!

You have to be extreemly prudent with building works.

Of course all the rules and regulations are best observed by a long term resident.