Re-registering with CPAM

[londoneye]

Now that the rules have been changed again and those such as my partner and myself  with recently expired E106's are once again eligible for affiliation to the french health care system (yippee); what is the best course of action now.

We sent back our cartes vitales as requested in December and have heard nothing since.    Not that we expected to actually.

Do we just visit the nice lady in the CPAM office with our old attestation, and all the normal paperwork we can lay our hands on, and ask for cover, or is it more complicated than that?

Has anyone actually done it yet, with any success by the way ?

[cooperlola]

Londoneye, we are putting the very final touches on a "what to do next" section for E106 holders, so please watch the site over the next 24 hours.  Yes, we are sure you will have to start again.  This will mean full CMU entry application, including tax returns etc etc., to calculate your premiums.

I won't be around for a week or so after today, so please use the site to keep up to date, and please mail us about the reaction you get, as we want to find out which CPAMs are doing what!

[londoneye]

Will do - hope to be off to UK for a few months some time next week, so have to try to get this done pronto, as cannot leave OH with no health insurance (well not unless I can get him to write a will out leaving everything to me first, then it would be ok !!)

[Ron Avery]

LE, assuming that you have the letter from the UK saying that you are no longer entitled to cover under your E 106s (two versions, English and French, you won't get in the CMU without it), you should pursue this ASAP.  This is because you need to get a French EHIC  if you intend to go back to the UK for a few months or you will have no health cover in the UK.  Remember the issue of your E 106 wiped you off the UK NHS records

[cooperlola]

Londoneye, please EMAIL me, and I'll send you a sneak preview!

[Keith CHANNING]

I have asked DWP for the letter. They said that it is now with HMRC non-residents. HMRC said they could only do it in English and not in French and promptly did nothing. On reminding them, HMRC told me to email DWP, which I did on Friday.

Meanwhile, we never had a CV and we have heard nothing from CPAM (ever) except our payment advices. CPAM visits our area on Wednesday morning, and it will be interesting to see how they see the latest situation.

[Ron Avery]

"I have asked DWP for the letter. They said that it is now with HMRC non-residents. HMRC said they could only do it in English and not in French "  Keith, that is rubbish.  Get on the phone to the DWP at Newcastle and tell them that your E 106 has expired and you need the letters to show you no longer have cover, they have been issuing them for years, maybe you got the work experience person. Under normal circumstance you would not hear anything from your CPAM except for statements, certainly nothing about the CMU as you aren't eligible to join that until your E 106 expires, and nobody on an E 106 should have had their CV withdrawn in 2007.

[TWINKLE]

Wow Ron! 

You obviously don't take any nonsense when it comes to French bureacracy!  I wish I had someone as forceful as you to do all my calls when I have queries for the dreaded fonctionnaires!

[minnie]

I got the letter in French stating that my E106 would not be extended in December 2007 from DWP in Newcastle.  The telephone number I used was 0044 191 21 81999.  An e-mail address was shown on the letter;  [email protected]

We're off to CPAM tomorrow to see how the land lies.

Hope this helps.  Minnie

 

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]LE, assuming that you have the letter from the UK saying that you are no longer entitled to cover under your E 106s (two versions, English and French, you won't get in the CMU without it), you should pursue this ASAP.  This is because you need to get a French EHIC  if you intend to go back to the UK for a few months or you will have no health cover in the UK.  Remember the issue of your E 106 wiped you off the UK NHS records[/quote]

 

Ron Do not want to disagree but every department works differently

In the Charente we did not have to show a letter from DWP saying we were no longer covered. We applied and were accepted with no letter..

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="TWINKLE"]

Wow Ron! 

You obviously don't take any nonsense when it comes to French bureacracy!  I wish I had someone as forceful as you to do all my calls when I have queries for the dreaded fonctionnaires!

[/quote]

Last time I looked Twinks,  Newcastle was in the UK, although  I can understand south western French better than I can most people from that region.[:P]

BaF there is an exception that disproves every rule, particularly with French officials.  I bet 90% of the people on here including those living in the Charente who had to show that letter before being allowed CMU entry.

[minnie]

We visited CPAM in Agen today with our newly expired E106.  We were given the CMU application form and told to complete and return it with all necessary documentation.  Note that documents had to be ORIGINALS (apart from passport photocopy).  The documents required were:-

Birth certificates, Marriage certificate, French income tax form (completed for 2006) with supporting P60s & Bank Interest certificates, Letters from DWP Newcastle declining further E106 for both of us, Copy passport details, RIB, and Attestation de droits (expiring 5.1.2008).

I also took a copy of this web page http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/CMU2008UKinFRANCE.pdf       to illustrate the current position, in case of difficulties.  However, we had none.

Hope that this will be of use to people who have yet to go to CPAM.

                                                                                                                                      

 

 

[TWINKLE]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]Last time I looked Twinks,  Newcastle was in the UK, although  I can understand south western French better than I can most people from that region.[:P] [/quote]

Ooops!

It's just that I get all dizzy when I speak to you Ron[:$]

[seb47]

Hello Minnie - fellow Agen slave!

I don't understand why they are asking for your 2006 tax return: on the front of the CMU de Base form it asks for financial details from the previous year.Surely if your E106 expired Jan 5th as ours did, they should be asking for 2007 details? 

[bellaboo]

We visited our local CPAM yesterday (31) and got the same response.  Very helpful, gave us all the forms to fill in although didn't have to supply birth and marriage certificates.  Also showed letter from health minister but didn't seem to bothered with it, quick glance and gave it back.  Told us we would notified within 15 days. (of what I don't know - hopefully confirmation we are in the system)  We are winging it at the moment without insurance so hopefully it is good news.

[bellaboo]

Apparently on the health website if you apply after 30th September 2007 and before October 2008 you have to show your 2006 revenue fiscal even though as you say on the actual form it asks for details from 1st Jan - 31st Dec 2007.

[minnie]

When we collected the form from CPAM, the note stapled to it stated that financial details were required for Jan - Dec 2006.  It's a bit early to ask for 2007 yet as the tax forms for that year don't need completing until about May.  In any case we'd have no P60s from UK yet, as the financial year there doesn't end until April 5th.  Hope this helps.

[Jazzer]

According to the  iinformation sheet  to the  application (downloaded from the FHI site very helfuly) it says you have to provide original or photocopy of the following if you are an EU citizen:

 

CarteVitale and accompanying attestaion/

Passport

 If you have lived in France for more than 3months Something to cofirm you live in France-eg EDF bill.

 

Also the Avis d'imposition or declaration d'impots.

 

Payslips.

 

I would have thought the Avis d'Impot sur les revenus would have been of more use than just the Avis d'imposition?

[sunshine 2]

It is v clear from all the mail received at FHI that CPAM's have always had  flexibility to place their own interpretation on some of  the rules - which is odd to Brit's as we expect govt dept's throughout UK to act with one accord.

Not all CPAM's require your letter from Newc confirming you have no more eligibility for E106 to be translated into French - mine did not when I applied.  All CPAM's will want your finances and supporting doc's for world wide income from Jan - Dec 2006, but some will also want to see any documentation also relating to 2007 even though you cannot have a French tax return for that year yet. 

It is interesting to hear that Agen allowed someone to complete teh CMU app form - please let us know if you receive a letter saying you can join CMU now!  So far, all those writing to FHI about their experiences at CPAM offices have been been sent away despite then having showed the French Health Minister's letter of 23/1/08 and Embassy statement of 24/1/08.  Some have been told in no uncertain terms that the French Health Minister's letter will make no difference to the current exclusion for E106 expirees.  It is still all v worrying

 

[Sunday Driver]

Like any similar organisation, CPAM staff are required to follow their departmental procedures.  If those procedures say an application cannot be accepted, then it will be refused, as evidenced by the experience on the ground to date .  Producing a printout obtained from the internet purporting to be a copy of a letter from the minister to a foreign government expressing her intentions to modify the rules was never likely to induce CPAM staff to override their official instructions.

That said, the positive reports from Agen suggest that new procedures have now been issued, so possibly very good news.....

 

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="seb47"]

Hello Minnie - fellow Agen slave!

I don't understand why they are asking for your 2006 tax return: on the front of the CMU de Base form it asks for financial details from the previous year.Surely if your E106 expired Jan 5th as ours did, they should be asking for 2007 details? 

[/quote]

 

Normally an application for CMU is made in September every year as the fiscal year for CMU runs from October to September.The reason it runs from September to October is that ones tax return for 2006,for example,is not completed till May 2007 and one receives ones tax liability form,with ones revenue fiscal de reference,in August 2007,and one is then able to complete the appliction for CMU in the September with ones revenue fiscal de reference on which is calculated ones payment for the year from October 2007 to Sept 2008.

For E106 holders on their first application in the January of 2008 one would therefore have to show ones tax liability form and revenue fiscal de reference for the year 2006 as we are still in the fiscal year for CMU Oct 2007 to Sept 2008.

 

[minnie]

If problems are encountered when you show them the printout of the letter; also politely invite them to view the actual web page on their computer: http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/CMU2008UKinFRANCE.pdf

 

[trémargatois]

We've just returned from our CPAM office at Loudéac.  Our E106's have just expired.  I had a completed CMU application form plus all the usual dossier.  The lady at the office explained that, at the moment, we could not join the CMU and that we would, in theory, have to find private health insurance.  She was aware that the Social Security minister had spoken with the British Ambassador in Paris, but told me that "no decision" had yet been taken about allowing entrance to CMU.  However, she was perfectly happy to take our application form and did not require us to return our Carte Vitales at the moment.  The only documentation requested was our avis d'imposition for 2006, no evidence of residence etc. was required at this time.

As always our reception was courteous and helpful and the official assured me that CPAM would contact me as soon as they had official guidance, she was unable to tell me how long this might take.

I was not surprised to hear the above, I did not expect a local office to commit themselves, one way or the other, until confirmation comes through to them, even though the situation appears to be satisfactorily resolved.     

[Ron Avery]

Welcome to the Forum

I'm sure that there will be many undergoing a similar experience for a while and it just shows how cumbersome and bureaucratic the health systems are, but I'm sure it will sort itself out soon and as long as you have your Attestation and your CV still works don't worry too much.  Just one small point, your Avis d'imposition is the best proof of residence that you can have and far better than an EDF bill that holiday home owners also would have.

[londoneye]

Well, I may as well update on our visit this morning to CPAM in St Yrieix La Perche (87).

Armed with everything I could think of we went in and presented the form.    Nice lady (?!) took one look, pushed it back across and said we should take out private health insurance.   I asked her to please accept the forms and let me know in writing.   No, she said, I cannot accept the forms.   Stale-mate; she went back to her paperwork I sat and smiled a lot.   After a few minutes when she could see we weren't just going to go away I asked her again to look at the form.   She did so, and again went through the 'not eligible' thingie.   I told her I believed the situation may have either changed, or be about to change.   She said possibly.   Then passed her letter from French health ministry, and asked if she had seen it.   She clearly had although she said no she hadn't.   She flicked over it and say maybe, but right now I can't do anything.   Bit more stale-mate, and she offered to call a colleague.   Comptuer was down, colleague not there.   Nice big queue building up outside, at which point she caved in, took copies of various things, and then became really happy when she discovered I didn't have a habitation tax bill with me.   Absolutely necessary apparently to prove I live in France (although I had also given her our Avis d'impot and Avis d'imposition).   Then she asked for my P60 from UK for 2006.   I explained again that we came here in April 2006, and I had worked in UK January and part of February 2006.    She assured me the money I earned in UK for Jan and Feb 2006 would also be taken into account in making any assessment.   Is this true ?   I am probably stuffed if it is actually, because my company gave me a quite large 'thank you' gift when I left (not redundancy) for helping them out by working 20+ hours a day on occasion the year before, due to a particularly difficult situation which had arisen in company.

Anyway, I am to return Monday with the P60 and my habitation tax and then I suppose she will write to me.   Not a particularly easy visit, and certainly taxing on the French, but then again pretty much as I expected.   

So, add habitation tax to portfolio to take with you everyone !